What Is Your Favorite Stripping Technique?

[daniel4832]

I believe in the case of gobie cichlids, the pair bond can be pretty fragile. It's been my experience that a 20L does not give the pair enough room to avoid each other if the need arises. It's also been my experience that keeping gobies (Tanganicodus and Eretmodus, no experience with Spathodus yet), in a four foot tank with tank mates helps strengthen the pair bond, because sticking together gives them an ally against everyone else. (Not that they're vicious fish towards non-conspecifics).

I'm not against trying new things and getting things to work, but I've done the Tanganicodus in a 20L. It didn't work for me. So, I've already tried it. On top of that, it's my personal preference to err closer to normal conditions for my fish. The territory in the wild of a pair of Gobies is much larger than a 20L. It's also larger than a 75 gallon and perhaps I'm just being arbitrary on where I set the bar for myself. When I try new things however, I'd rather have a better chance of them working by being conservative, rather than trying something new or trying something that worked for some others but isn't recommended as a ideal setup.

(In a vain attempt to move the thread back towards the original post.)


Tim[/b]

es

Tim,
I have had kept this pair in a 20 for over a year succeessfully. Now I consider that I have sucessfully bred them, even though the female did all holding, the last part is to successfully raise the fry, the jury is still out on that. The first time I successfully bred gobies was over 20-25 years ago and that was in a ten gallon. I have for some reason been able to put together pairs, usally WC, that I have been able to raise and breed in tanks that others have said are impossible to keep their fish alive, much less breed them. Up until about 6 months ago I raised and bred most of my Lamps and Julies in 15 gallon tanks, and I have been doing so with great success for decades. As I have been re-doing my fish rooms I have replace most of the 15s with 20s and 30/40 breeders, some of the fish that had been breeding for me in 15s for years, have not re-started breeding in the larger tanks, go figure. I might have to go out and buy some more 15s for some of my fish to get them to start breeding again . Tim all I'm trying to say is that what works for me may not work for you, and vice versa. Fish don't read the books, and change their behavior in captivity, even the WC ones. All I can do is say, is what I have learn from keeping and breeding cichlids for over 40 years, my actual experiences backed up with reading as much as I can.
Thanks,
Daniel

 

[daniel4832]

Oh, I forgot to mention that when I was feeding the fish about an hour ago the female goby was displaying to the male, and he was reponding, so I guess the pair bond hasn't been broken.
Thanks,
Daniel

 

[longstocking]

I was talking from experience. I had the same exact thing happen in a 20 gallon with this species. She would hold but he wouldn't. Tank raised seems to be a bit better with this, that's why I asked if they were wilds... as it does make a difference. It didn't work with wilds fro me. There just isn't enough room for them to do their "thing". The pair bonds are pretty fragile... but I have found they are mendable as well. Just because he doesn't hold doesn't mean the bond is broken. I was merely saying "watch out" it could be... I was trying to help you !

Please don't assume when I ask a question it's putting the way you keep fish down ! I asked a question.... with gobies it does make a difference if they are wild or TR. I think I've bred enough of them ( probably thousands of fry to ask a simple question) I was trying to help.

In terms on the boards.... you have to realize that I have to post in a way that newbies won't kill their fish. If someone pm's me with a question... they usually get a slightly diffrent answer. I can't say... "yeah go ahead and put brichardi in your 55 gallon with comps" ... as for a new comer to tangs the brichardi would probably stres sout or kill the comps. But if you've kept tangs for a while you would know how to make that combo work.

 

[daniel4832]

Sarah,
In that case say "for me it has worked this way", as you are talking from your experience. I have bred all four of the gobies, over a 30 year period numerous times, and for the three that are bi-parental mouth brooders, I have always bred them in 15 and 20s, and this is the first time in 30 years that I noticed a female hold the fry full term rather then switch them to the male. They were 1/4" when she released them and I left her in with the fry for a few days before placing her back with the male. I did this because, in my experience, that it gives the female time to recover and imprint her fry, as in my experience a 15 or 20 gallon tank is large enough to properly bred them, not right or wrong but what in my experience works best for me and my fish.
My problem is, and in my opinion, that you come off as if it is not being done your way, it is the wrong way, and when you do it to me, I find it personally condescending. I am describing what has worked for me, my observations, opinions, and experience, not that this is the only way to do it, and if you don't do it my way your are wrong. I am describing what has worked for me, after 40+ years of experience of keeping all types of cichlid, and 30+ years of keeping Tangs!
I do learn from other people, such as yourself, and try different ways. As one example, I have been trying to breed some Tangs in a community settings, an idea I got from you and one that you have been very successful with, and so far I have been totally unsuccessful with. That doesn't mean one of us is right or wrong, is just means you have mastered something that I haven't. It can be done (like gobies can be properly bred in 20 gallon tanks) as both you and Bobby have shown, it's just I haven't mastered it yet, as you haven't mastered some of my breeding methods (and you may not want to). My methods have evolved over the last 40+ years I have been keeping cichlids, I read every book I can, read most of the magizines, talk to the "experts", and lurk on different forums to keep learning, some things work for me others don't, doesn't make them right or wrong, it just makes them what works, or doesn't work for me. I'm just passing on my experiences and my opinions.
If this gets you to realize, that they are other methods that can work, then the ones that have worked for you, then my work is almost done Now if I just get you to call me Daniel instead of Dan, life will be just about perfect!
Thanks,
Daniel

 

[Tim]

Now if I just get you to call me Daniel instead of Dan, life will be just about perfect!
Thanks,
Daniel[/b]

Would Danny Boy or Dan da Man be acceptable? :048:

 

[daniel4832]

<div class='quotemain'>Now if I just get you to call me Daniel instead of Dan, life will be just about perfect!
Thanks,
Daniel[/b]

Would Danny Boy or Dan da Man be acceptable? :048:
[/b][/quote]


Tim,
Only if you want a punch in the nose! :fighting0097: :happy0158:
Thanks,
Daniel

 

[Laxison]

Just wanted to add my quick two cents here.

First off, it's really difficult to interpret the manner in which one is speaking via text (email, letter, etc). With Sarah's posts one may think she is being critical or even harsh. On the flip side, one may see her as providing a wealth of information and only trying to help that person (I'm in the camp. I've learned tons from reading her post!). Daniel, I understand that you may feel that Sarah's responses are taking shots at you but as an outsider looking in (since, yes, I am butting my nose in here, but it IS a public discussion placed on this forum), I see her as trying to provide beneficial information while giving examples to show her expertice. You clearly have years of fish experience behind you (something I am happily jealous of!), but if Sarah kept her mouth shut and didn't provide information, I think I'm safe to say that we would all be at a huge loss!

I agree with Tim that this post should revert back to its original purpose, "Fish Stripping." Maybe I can make a stand and say, "OK guys, interpret responses as you feel fit, whether it be beneficial or an attack on you. Heck! What one may read as helpful advice could be a harsh attack on their fish keeping! The fact of the matter is that it's hard to truly read into writing and what one is trying to convey in their messages."

I have to say that as I read things, I personally feel that everyone is very helpful on this forum and are friendly with their advice. I've been on other forums (which I have since left after finding CCA a year and a half ago!) where people literally cussed at me in their responses! Not fun and that's no way to give someone "advice."

OK, I'll back out. I apologize if I ruffled any feathers, but I think that everyone's heart is in the right place but people are mixing signals! That's all for me!

 

[Charlutz]

It's not a thread hijack if the original poster is engaging in the tangent. :happy0180:

I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt, but if you spend any amount of time on forums, you know that some people are "internet cowboys" and talk a lot tougher or are more confrontational than they would be in real life. People tend to want to "be right" and anyone who challenges an opinion must be attacked. Unfortunately, it's the way the internet is. With a cozy forum like this, it more closely resembles a face to face, since we mostly all know each other. But sometimes people purposely say harsh things because they intend to be harsh (all forums). If their posts are taken the wrong way and it was unintentional, they can correct it. Best to leave it to them to fix it if they deem it needs fixing, IMO.

My own example happened on the CF where I was trying to help someone set up a sump and WD. He had never done one before and posted plans for his design. The plans were severely flawed and prone to cause a flood. I answered all his questions and linked him to articles explaining how sump systems worked. But apparently when I said "novices" shouldn't change established designs, he took exception and sent me a PM calling me an ass. He posted in the thread and thanked all the people who complimented his flawed design, but bashed me. Since when is being a novice an insult, especially when you come on a forum asking for help? I try not to take it personally, but the fact that I have a clear recollection of it suggests that my internet self was a little ticked. It happens.

 

[daniel4832]

OK, let me try to make my point one last time, I don't mind hearing different opinions or different ways of doing things. I'm still learning, and when I stop learning I will stop keeping cichlids. When I go to Cleveland next month for the OCA, I will be visiting at least 4 different fishrooms, to see different ways of keeping and breeding Tangs. I will learn more from my visits then even the great talks presented at the OCA.
My "problem" is being told that I'm not doing it "their" way, and no matter my success then it's the wrong way. That's the main reason I stopped visiting The Cichlid Forum, and that's why I get annoyed with Sarah's telling me I shouldn't be doing it "that" way. All I'm doing is recounting what has, or hasn't worked for me period, not that it is the only way to do it, and I wish she would preface her opinions and experiences in the same way. While I respect Sarah, and her opinions, I don't always like the way she presents them.
Thanks,
Daniel

 

[longstocking]

First of all... if I don't have actual expereince I say so... I say I've read... or seen in friends tanks etc.

I really try not to talk without having expereince. If I short hand and make things blunt.. it's because I post constantly on c-f to help people (I'm sorry I have other things in my life that keep me busy as well ). Not once has there been a single complaint on the way that I post.. infact quite the opposite ! I'm sorry if you mis-interpret my posts. Don't read into them... they are meant to be simple and to the point so the new comer doesn't get confused. I don't get payed to moderate c-f ... I do it because I enjoy it.

I'm not going to change the way I post. You know first hand that I talk to expereinced keepers different that to new comers. I'm sorry that you can't read past that. 99% of moderators do this for the simple reason they don't want to mis-lead the new comer into thinking they could try some of the things we try. It's to save them heart break and dissappointment untill they become more experienced. It keeps them involved in the hobby.

I don't think there is anything wrong with the way you keep your fish... sure I would change a few things but it has nothing to do with the size of tanks you put your fish in. I'm sure you would change how I do things as well. Too each his own. I learn all the time from people more experienced than myself. Infact there are HUNDREDS of people on c-f that have way more experience than me. I pm them all the time asking for their advice.. infact sometimes I even post questions ! How many moderator do that? Not too many that I know !

 

[Charlutz]

That's the second time I thought we were talking about posting in general and not specific posters...

 

[Pat Kelly]

And I thought the topic was your favorite stripping technique.
Not posting technique.

 

[Charlutz]

I'm partly to blame for continuing the tangent and discussing internet etiquette as I thought we were speaking in generalities. Since we've covered stripping technique throughly, maybe an admin can lock this and anyone who wants to discuss the tone of specific posts can do it by PM.

 

[Pat Kelly]

Your wish.