Why am I getting nitrite spikes after a water change?

[hollyfish2000]

Thanks Richard for the link, but trust me, I seriously know the difference! The issue is nitrIte as mentioned throughout the thread. The reference to nitrAte in a post was in response to a question posed about whether or not I had measurable nitrAte (I assume to make sure I had a cycled tank.)

Both tanks are back to normal at this point.

The question about Prime is an interesting one. I do not know if I have chloramines. Perhaps someone else in the Gaithersburg area knows . . . Could overdosing on Prime cause the oxygen deficiency I'm seeing in my planted tank? If yes, could that oxygen deficiency affect my biological filter to a small extent causing the slight elevation in nitrIte?? Hmmm, this might be the smoking gun . . .

 

[mrkillie]

You said you tested the tap water for nitrites-did you test for ammonia? If your water company is putting chloramines in your water, you are putting ammonia in the tank when you do water changes and neutralize the chlorine. Your bacteria beds in the filters then start converting the ammonia to nitrite. How long after a water change are you testing? Are you testing for ammonia too?

Joel

 

[chris_todd]

You said you tested the tap water for nitrites-did you test for ammonia? If your water company is putting chloramines in your water, you are putting ammonia in the tank when you do water changes and neutralize the chlorine. Your bacteria beds in the filters then start converting the ammonia to nitrite. How long after a water change are you testing? Are you testing for ammonia too?

Joel

I wondered that as well, but would a typical API ammonia test pick up the ammonia that's part of chloramines? And furthermore, isn't it one of Prime's advantages that it neutralizes chloramines as well as chlorine?

 

[mrkillie]

I wondered that as well, but would a typical API ammonia test pick up the ammonia that's part of chloramines? And furthermore, isn't it one of Prime's advantages that it neutralizes chloramines as well as chlorine?

I think that is the problem-usually when they say it neutralizes chloramines it means it breaks it apart (into Chlorine and Ammonia) and then neutralizes the chlorine, but not the ammonia.

As for the API test, I am not sure-but I believe the Tetra test does. In either brand though, the ammonia test should be accurate if done.

 

[Tony]

^^^ I think Joel could be onto something.

 

[chris_todd]

The question about Prime is an interesting one. I do not know if I have chloramines. Perhaps someone else in the Gaithersburg area knows . . . Could overdosing on Prime cause the oxygen deficiency I'm seeing in my planted tank? If yes, could that oxygen deficiency affect my biological filter to a small extent causing the slight elevation in nitrIte?? Hmmm, this might be the smoking gun . . .

If you're in Gaithersburg, you probably get your water from WSSC, via the Potomac. I looked at the 2008 Water Quality Report (available here), and did not see evidence that they are adding ammonia in addition to chlorine, though you should peruse their website more carefully. Municipal water authorities have been known to change their treatment protocols without warning or notification, based on changing conditions or water quality concerns.

 

[maddog10]

Start using aged water for your changes. Let the water sit in the buckets for 24 hours with an airstone. Then test the water to see what you get.

 

[SubMariner]

I live in Montgomery County and I don't have any issues with my water. Has to be something else.

 

[chris_todd]

I live in Montgomery County and I don't have any issues with my water. Has to be something else.

I don't know where you live in Montgomery County, but I think Rockville is on a separate water system than the rest of the county.

And you're right, it might be something else, I was just pointing Holly to the WSSC Water Quality Report.

 

[Jumbie]

I live in Mo. Co. as well and I have never had a problem. I would try what Mike said and see what the test results say.

 

[hollyfish2000]

Ok, some of that discussion of Prime is confusing to me. I can't imagine a product that is supposed to make tap water suitable for an aquarium would be introducing ammonia . . . I thought Prime addressed the issue of ammonia by turning it into a nontoxic form.

I'm in Gaithersburg. I haven't tested my tap for ammonia, but have tested it for nitrite and got a zero result.

Yes, I've periodically tested the tanks for ammonia, but that usually does not register even when I'm getting nitrites. My assumption was that the nitrite-eating bacteria is more sensitive than the ammonia-eating bacteria and thus affected more by whatever is happening.

I'm still focused on the idea that too much Prime is depleting oxygen. In this most recent round of water changes, I did leave the water in buckets over night. BUT then, out of an abundance of caution, I also added Prime at the last minute. I did not put an air stone in the buckets. Could it sitting out over night have depleted oxygen as well as adding too much Prime?

 

[mrkillie]

I'm still focused on the idea that too much Prime is depleting oxygen. In this most recent round of water changes, I did leave the water in buckets over night. BUT then, out of an abundance of caution, I also added Prime at the last minute. I did not put an air stone in the buckets. Could it sitting out over night have depleted oxygen as well as adding too much Prime?

I would let the water sit overnight with the Prime in it so that any chemical reactions will have time to reach completion prior to putting the water in the tank.

Joel

 

[mscichlid]

Overnight with Prime and aerated...

 

[danger_chicken]

Ok, some of that discussion of Prime is confusing to me. I can't imagine a product that is supposed to make tap water suitable for an aquarium would be introducing ammonia . . . I thought Prime addressed the issue of ammonia by turning it into a nontoxic form.

I'm in Gaithersburg. I haven't tested my tap for ammonia, but have tested it for nitrite and got a zero result.

Yes, I've periodically tested the tanks for ammonia, but that usually does not register even when I'm getting nitrites. My assumption was that the nitrite-eating bacteria is more sensitive than the ammonia-eating bacteria and thus affected more by whatever is happening.

I'm still focused on the idea that too much Prime is depleting oxygen. In this most recent round of water changes, I did leave the water in buckets over night. BUT then, out of an abundance of caution, I also added Prime at the last minute. I did not put an air stone in the buckets. Could it sitting out over night have depleted oxygen as well as adding too much Prime?

The idea behind the airstone in the buckets of water is to remove the chlorine (that wont help with chloramines). Water can become oxygen depleted if left standing but that would take more than 24hrs.

From Seachem's site:
Prime® is the complete and concentrated conditioner for both fresh and salt water. Prime® removes chlorine, chloramine and ammonia. Prime® converts ammonia into a safe, non-toxic form that is readily removed by the tank’s biofilter. Prime® may be used during tank cycling to alleviate ammonia/nitrite toxicity. Prime® detoxifies nitrite and nitrate, allowing the biofilter to more efficiently remove them. It will also detoxify any heavy metals found in the tap water at typical concentration levels. Prime® also promotes the production and regeneration of the natural slime coat. Prime® is non-acidic and will not impact pH. Prime® will not overactivate skimmers. Use at start-up and whenever adding or replacing water...For exceptionally high chloramine concentrations, a double dose may be used safely. To detoxify nitrite in an emergency, up to 5 times normal dose may be used. If temperature is > 30 °C (86 °F) and chlorine or ammonia levels are low, use a half dose.

If you are seeing nitrite spikes that could suggest an abundance of ammonia being processed into nitrite. That could be a result of chloramine's being reduced by prime.

Thses leads me back to my orginal question - How much Prime are you using? And MrKillie's - How long after a water change are you testing?

I don't know where Li lives but I'm under the impression he has chloramines in his water.

I do believe your "abundance of caution" maybe at the root. If you are only changing 10% you don't need to add any dechlor (unless you have chlormines). The aeriation that occurs when filling the tank, and dilution, takes care of the chlorine. Chlorine isn't very stable and disapates quickly.

 

[SubMariner]

Holly, you're in Gaithersburg so why don't you take your water to be tested at Tropical Fish World, which is right near you. They might be able to assess the situation and help you out.

 

[dogofwar]

I'm in Gaithersburg and regulalry use water straight from the tap (via a garden hose) + Prime. I dump a little Prime in the tank, usually before adding water but not always.

My bet is that it's not the tap water or the Prime.

More frequent water changes, bigger water changes...always a good thing

Matt

 

[YSS]

Definitely water is not the problem if she is changing a very small amount. I've had similar problems in the past, but I was doing 50% plus water changes. My problem was ammonia in the tap. Anyhow, may be Prime is the problem? May be it's gone bad or something?

 

[hollyfish2000]

I thought about the "bad Prime," too, but have a new jug of it . . .

Matt -- I'm a big fan of the frequent water changes, but not when they're causing instability in my tanks!!! The reason I went with the small 10 percent water changes recently was because my more normal 25 percent water changes had gone so awry recently.

I have Drink More water with Equillibrium and a new bucket to do future water changes to eliminate issues with tap, Prime and contaminants in the old buckets. I may also do some experimentations with various combos of old buckets + RO water or new bucket with tap water dosed appropriately with Prime to see what happens.

My tanks are fine now and all fish are fine. But I hate worrying and testing and hovering over my tanks after every fricking water change.

 

[mrkillie]

More frequent water changes, bigger water changes...always a good thing

Matt

ABSOLUTELY NOT! Usually, but definitely not always. There are a lot of factors that will determine whether that is true in your area. Some municipalities change treatments by season, or switch water sources without informing their customers as long as the water going to the people meets EPA standards. Even time of day that you do water changes can affect the outcome, as water authorities will often treat more heavily early in the day when a large volume is expected to be used, and less so later and during the overnight hours. Some even have large amounts of CO2, which drastically alters the pH as it escapes from the water, so testing the water prior to a water change doesn't always tell you the whole story. Small, frequent water changes are always best if using water straight from the tap. If using water that is aged until it is stable, then large changes can be done with great success.

Joel

 

[YSS]

I buy DI water from WholeFoods for my SW tank. It cost 39 cents per gallon. They also have RO water as well. That may be an option for you.