Restocking the 150

[MonteSS]

This is similar to what I have in my 75g and exactly what I was going to suggest.

I love this tank. Wish I had a 150g so I could add a group os Orangehead Geo Tapajos or Guinacara and a chocolate. Fish are not shy at all. Good interaction and personalities. Peaceful yet exciting.

Also consider an Australoheros Oblongum pair (fish in my avatar) from ToddnBecka.

....Bill

[YT]DYutoUumWTM[/YT]

Tony

I'd go for a large group of red head tapajos geophagus. They are absolutely beautiful, do well in groups, and are mouthbrooders so they wouldn't be too far from some of the stuff you are used to. You could fill out the middle part of the tank with a nice pair of a larger SA - severum, acara, chocolate or the like. You could also do a group of festivum instead of the pair. Although you couldn't keep a school of smaller tetras with these fish, you could easily do a group of taller bodies like bleeding hearts or columbian. Plecos and cories would fit in great.

Let's talk more over some beers.

 

[verbal]

Judging from your criteria, I think you should probably go with a South American tank. In terms of planting, I would use 3 or 4 amazon swords as the main plants. They are close to anubias/java fern in terms of being pretty tough plants.

I would go with a large school of deep bodied tetras.

I think the Geophagus you suggest sound like a good pick. They max out at about 5" don't they?

I think you could add an open water spawner(Rams, Bolivian Rams or Laetacara) and a cave spawner("larger apisto" like Strawberry apisto). Jeff Rapps had a species of Laetacara(i think it was dorsigera) at ACA that was very colorful and tempting.

I think with the tank size you should see courting and probably breeding behavior from all the cichlids, although fry yields would be small if any.

What were you thinking in terms of plecos? I have a clown pleco that you can have if you are interested. Are there any Peckoltia species you are interested in?

 

[YSS]

Of course, I would say discus, but not cheap. Even for very small ones from Hans, you are looking at $30+ each and people don't generally grow small ones out in a large tanks although I have done it to varying degree of success.

I would say a group of angles and smaller geos for the main fish. There is a guy on simply disucs selling juvy geos for $40 per six including shipping.

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showt...1-1.5-quot-Central-Florida-Shipping-available

For the cories and tetras, ton's of choices. I loved having a large school of bleeding hearts. I really liked congo tetras as well. Now, I am thinking about adding some lemon tetras. I am sure you are aleady planning on talking to Michael. I got those laser cories from him and they are awesome. Good luck man! If you want to come over and take a look at my setup, let me know.

 

[Avatar]

Missed the point....

I would go low light, low maintenance, NO co2, mineralized top soil (aaron's soil mix with potash, clay and domolite) with spectra quartz (3M replacement) and some mopani wood or dragon stone (found on ebay). This does limit your fish selection to non diggers tho, which can be a pita.

By my way of thinking 'low maintenance' is just that, and is generally predicated on simplicity. All I was saying is that one can have a sumptuously verdant tank without recourse to layered substrates, which as you admit "can be a pain in the a**" as it precludes digging fish or Geophagus or anyone else that likes to root around in the bottom of the tank, and additionally makes any re-scaping or any but minor modifications to internal lay-out a total hassle.

Am sure that 'Aaron's soil mix' and 'spectra quartz' are fine products and never implied otherwise, just not sure why one would want to go there, especially when just starting out with a New World experiment/experience.

 

[londonloco]

I'm sure most here would agree, in this hobby, do it right the first time or you'll be redoing it over and over. If Tony decided planted with non diggers, the right way (again, IMHO) is mineralized top soil as substrate. It's cheap, and easy to make given the hot sunny days we've been having. Done correctly, minor or major replants are not a hassle. Whether I replant a soil tank, or Flourite or sand tank, all clear up after 24 hours. In my soil tanks, I plant and watch it grow, lights set on a timer, feed the fish, even dosing 8 tanks takes 3 mins a day, they really are simple and hassle free. The only draw back I can see with soil substrate is the fish limitation, and on this forum, that is a major concern.

Edit, doesn't matter anyway, he has stated he would rather not do planted....

 

[Spine]

+1 on Jon's Red head Tapajo idea. Let me know if that's what you decide, I'm definitely replacing the group I lost in my 125 gallon.

 

[Tony]

Holy crap, guys!

Wasn't on after work yesterday and logged in this morning, expecting a few responses. Boy, was I wrong.

A million thanks for the wealth of information. I need to start sorting stuff out in my head.

*This* is why I love out club.

 

[verbal]

Holy crap, guys!

Wasn't on after work yesterday and logged in this morning, expecting a few responses. Boy, was I wrong.

A million thanks for the wealth of information. I need to start sorting stuff out in my head.

*This* is why I love out club.

A thread like this usually gets a lot of responses because it is like having another tank without having to do water changes or get "approval".

 

[Tony]

Discus... Seriously?

I would do discus... Get smaller ones and grow them out, preferably from Hans. Then you can also do warm water cories, plecos, plants etc.

I agree, I'd def go with discus in a 6 footer. I've done the community planted tetra 6 foot tank. Nice at first, but after a few months you'll be bored, (ok IMO). Discus and cory's planted would be beautiful, I would go low light, low maintenance, NO co2, mineralized top soil (aaron's soil mix with potash, clay and domolite) with spectra quartz (3M replacement) and some mopani wood or dragon stone (found on ebay). (If you decide to go w/soil substrate, pm me, I have the potash, clay and domolite for you). This does limit your fish selection to non diggers tho, which can be a pita.

Of course, I would say discus, but not cheap. Even for very small ones from Hans, you are looking at $30+ each and people don't generally grow small ones out in a large tanks although I have done it to varying degree of success.

Yeah, like Yun said. Discus are not in the fish budget right now. I may have forgotten to mention that...

I still appreciate the last-ditch effort to swing me in that direction. Like I said, one of these days. Nothing wrong with folks being passionate about the fish they enjoy.

I would think a population of 10 would be a good start. Can't swing that. Maybe if I would have known to sell off some of my show haps, I would have had a decent start, but well.... whatcha gonna do?

 

[Tony]

Angels are beautiful fish....

i got lots of colors of angels and there are rumors of wild ones coming into our club too.....

Angels and tetras and corys and apistos and plecos and anubias and vals and ferns and mazanita wood

Agreed.
I recently took my 150, installed some rummy nose, 12 cardinals, 12 white clouds, some red swords, 20 small angels, about 25 Sterbai, 3 L333's
and a few plants. Man that val is taking over the tank. LOL
Calming but always movement in the tank.

I do like angels, but if I were to set them up in a tank, I'd probably do it in a smaller setup... perhaps my 45 upstairs after I thin out the plants (to move into the new setup) and get rid of some of the fish in there.

People don't usually keep them with larger cichlids, do they? Geos, etc? Differences in personality/activity/aggression?

 

[Tony]

A thread like this usually gets a lot of responses because it is like having another tank without having to do water changes or get "approval".

True that, Jesse. I love trying to talk folks into setting up African tanks.

 

[Tony]

Outside-the-box Suggestions.... I like it.

Arrowanas, datnoids and cats!

Cool alternative to the big meanies, but not for me (Sorry Li!). Startup cost aside, looking for more of a community.

It's not to late to reconsider Greenwoodocromis bellcrossi

I think it would be really interesting to set up your tank as a west african biotopre. Congo tetra for schooling would be a great way to go. As for cichlids, you have many choices. Tilapia, hemichromis, benitochromis, chromidotilapia, nanochromis, pelmatochromis and pelvicachromis are a few of the many types to choose from. anubias would be appropriate.

i tried a small west african biotope and plants were not a problem to get, small fish aside from kribs were hard in the other hand. would love to see what you guys can do!

or a south american biotope since the fish are easier to come by =D

I don't know; never been a big fan of jewels and kribs are fine in a 20 gallon tank. Looking up some of those other genuses on C-F, they sort of look like spinoffs of jewels or kribs and the tilapia get huge....

I will admit that large African tetras are cool as hell though.

To be honest, I don't think I've kept enough common stuff to be hungry/bored enough to go that far off the beaten path... (not sure if that makes sense or not).

Go for it. Another alternative is North American natives - check out the NANFA site - a lot of amazing US natives out there, many which you can collect and still very much an aspect of the hobby in its infancy. But you really should drop by and check out my version of the Life Aquatic - drinks are on me.

Thought about collecting some stuff out of my local creek earlier this year, but didn't pull the trigger. I may collect some shiners at some point, but more of a cool experiment for now than a plan for one of my three big show tanks.

Sam - I do love your other ideas though and appreciate your extensive comments on my initial post. Quoting a quote within a quote is tough though....I'll get to the community setup in a minute here.

 

[Tony]

Sam.

I have four very rambunctious juvenile altifrons that are growing like weeds that you may have for what I gave for them ($25)

Some constraints/design criteria:

1. Cories - I like cories. I like them a lot. But given the fact that the fish in all but two of my tanks currently set up like hard water has prevented me from properly keeping them. Throw in the fact that my current cichlids will turn them into chew toys and that's why I keep synos. So constraint #1 - a large school of cories.
   
   Fellow in Baltimore named Arthur has all sorts of Corydoras that he breeds in tap water, happy to put you in touch with him. He pretty much has a ceiling price of $5.00/each for juveniles of any type. Redkahuna on Aquabid but I like visiting him in person. Also easy to keep several species together - they don't mind at all and seem glad of the extra company.
2. Plecos - I'd like to keep a few different cool single specimens in there. Not even going to consider the ridiculous logistics of trying to breed a single species in a giant community setup, so no worries there.
   
   I keep yellow Ancistrus for algae control and because they're really mellow.
3. Schooling fish - A group or two of tetras/barbs/rasboras would be pretty sweet in a tall 6 footer, I think.
   
   Barbs are Asian, tetras are New World. Columbians are the bomb, Buenos Aires not far behind. They both get pretty big, stepping down in size Diamonds are pretty great and great looking, below that I like Bloodfins and Silvertips though they tend to get munched over time by larger tankmates.
4. Breeding - I like breeding behavior. Would like to either see one dominant group breeding or perhaps more than one if I lean towards a community of more than one species of cichlid. I don't however want to end up with a tank full of 500 chanchitos by next spring (no offense, Matt). I'm not looking for the new world equivalent to a horde of Neolamprologus brichardi.
   
   With a big tank and lots of cover, no reason why you shouldn't be able to breed 2 or 3 cichlid species and additionally be regularly harvesting Cory eggs off the sides of the glass. With something really mild tempered (Biotodoma) you could spawn Apistos and other dwarf cichlids alongside.[
5. Plants - I like planted tanks, but I already have my nice 45 gal planted tank upstairs. The high lighting and selection of easy varieties (anubias, giant val, cryptocoryne) has allowed this tank to be near zero maintenance. I like that, but it's taken years to get to that state and frankly, don't want to bother doing that again. I'd like to scape the tank with some easy plants and large chunks of driftwood, but nothing requiring a monster lighting investment. Lots of open swimming room, not the jungle I have in the 45. (I'm open to changing media from the current PFS/black 3M if it will look better)
   
   Water sprite, hornwort, wisteria, anubias, Java fern Java moss, guppy grass, pennywort.
6. Big meanies - Sorry DQ, but no. I want more that 3 fish in the tank, without the possibility of random homicidal rampages. I have my La Cieba Freddies growing out and will eventually have a pair in one of those 50 long tanks. Similarly, not at all interested in doing the single male community tank with an oscar, a jag, a festae, a polleni..... I'm not saying I won't have one of these setups some day, just not now; too similar to big male Malawi tanks imo (I know.. much different, but still not interested now).
   
   Agree. We all already did gym class when we were younger.
7. Biotope - Wile I'm not looking for everything to be from the exact location on a river, I'd like to do fish that are sort of related. Not too interested in keeping convicts with angels and Malagasy cichlids. I'm flexible with mixing in tetras and catfish from other places though.
   
   A real biotope mimics physical parameters as well as water and species composition. Hard to do justice to in a glass box.
8. Cost - Like the discus, I'm not looking to spend a fortune on cichlids. With the recent acquisition of some other fish (from a lake that shall not be mentioned in this section of the forum), I'd rather not spend $60-$80 each on adult fish. I'm completely fine with purchasing sub-adults on the more pricey stuff.
   
   Except for some rare Corydoras, have never paid more than $15-$20 for everything I keep including discus. Cost should not be an issue.[/FONT]

Altifrons - I may take you up on your offer, Sam. It's very much appreciated. I've been long enamored by Geos and am thinking that's the way I'll probably go.

Cories - Maybe a group consisting of a small variety and a large one? They will still school together, right? Won't their eggs get picked off? I'll talk to Mike as well as your Baltimore buddy when I'm ready.

Barbs/tetras - Yeah, not sure what I was thinking on the barbs. Most I've had were pretty rotten anyway and would be thrown into the back yard when they start nipping up the fins on my cichlids. I have some Buenos Aires tetras in my 45 that I got from George, so that's a start.

Plants - We need to talk more on plants. Right now, I'm leaning towards keeping some sort of eartheater in the tank (whether they be geos or gymnos). This in mind, fancy substrate and delicate plants are out the window.

Thanks for the tips bro. We really need to take the trip down to your place to chill. Soon, my friend.

 

[Avatar]

News from anaerobic Lake Woebegone

I'm sure most here would agree, in this hobby, do it right the first time or you'll be redoing it over and over.

I don't imagined there is only one "right way" to do a tank (or anything else for that matter), but may just me being defensive as I'd hate to think that my 30 apparently thriving planted tanks are actually all inherently flawed and dysfunctional.

It's precisely because planted tanks are perceived to be such a hassle and additional maintenance load that so many people reject the idea out of hand and never make the attempt. Not saying that it's true and you seem to have a pretty simple system that works for you. My point was not to dispute that but to say that substrate (and CO2 and dosing and the rest of it) are not essential to growing plants in abundance. My tanks may not be up to the high standards and expressions of 'planted-ness' that GWAPA and the like aspire to, but they're plenty lush and lyric for me and functional for their denizens. I'm pretty sure that with the exception of a single overstocked tank, most of the others wouldn't suffer so as to cause mortality if the filters shut down for a couple days - including my main discus tank - as long as the lights continued to go on and off automatically (I had one ten gallon run for two weeks without a filter for some Apistos and they never missed a beat). Not that I'm recommending it, just pointing out that plants can contribute quite a lot to cycling waste, especially species like Java moss that have a lot of surface area.

All I ever do for any of my tanks as far as plants go is to add water and light. Even in RO/DI water, a lot one can grow (including cabomba, swords, etc.) with adequate 6700K/10.000K illumination and absolutely nothing else.

Note: Plenty of guppy grass (pH 7.8) and soft water acclimated Water sprite available at the next meeting for anyone interested. It's that or it gets flushed as it's overrunning my tanks. Also have some extra softwater Hygro and small Java ferns to farm out as starter plants.

 

[Tony]

Here's what I'm thinking...

I'd go for a large group of red head tapajos geophagus. They are absolutely beautiful, do well in groups, and are mouthbrooders so they wouldn't be too far from some of the stuff you are used to. You could fill out the middle part of the tank with a nice pair of a larger SA - severum, acara, chocolate or the like. You could also do a group of festivum instead of the pair. Although you couldn't keep a school of smaller tetras with these fish, you could easily do a group of taller bodies like bleeding hearts or columbian. Plecos and cories would fit in great.

Sounds right up my alley...

Don't forget rainbow cichlids. This is my boy. He's very pretty and you get really interesting breeding behavior. One of my pairs is breeding for Jon right now (at least they were). Mine are temporarily celibate.

I need to figure out what goes with what. Will they go along larger fish or will they get intimidated and hide?

So looking forward to this tank. +1 on the Rainbow cichlids, mine are as tough as convicts but mellow around smaller stuff. Franny's list is a pretty good setup. Tetras: Bleeding hearts, or a shoal of silver dollars, thats what I have setup in my 120 and absolutely love watching those guys move together. Thats also where I put the six Paratheraps Synspilum, which seems to be working out pretty well so far. The tank is littered with corys as well without any issues.

This is similar to what I have in my 75g and exactly what I was going to suggest.

I love this tank. Wish I had a 150g so I could add a group os Orangehead Geo Tapajos or Guinacara and a chocolate. Fish are not shy at all. Good interaction and personalities. Peaceful yet exciting.

Also consider an Australoheros Oblongum pair (fish in my avatar) from ToddnBecka.

Bill, Your tank is absolutely gorgeous. So I guess angels are fine with larger stuff... severums, etc.

Judging from your criteria, I think you should probably go with a South American tank. In terms of planting, I would use 3 or 4 amazon swords as the main plants. They are close to anubias/java fern in terms of being pretty tough plants.

I would go with a large school of deep bodied tetras.

I think the Geophagus you suggest sound like a good pick. They max out at about 5" don't they?

I think you could add an open water spawner(Rams, Bolivian Rams or Laetacara) and a cave spawner("larger apisto" like Strawberry apisto). Jeff Rapps had a species of Laetacara(i think it was dorsigera) at ACA that was very colorful and tempting.

I think with the tank size you should see courting and probably breeding behavior from all the cichlids, although fry yields would be small if any.

What were you thinking in terms of plecos? I have a clown pleco that you can have if you are interested. Are there any Peckoltia species you are interested in?

I probably will go with a large sword or two in the tank. Durable as hell and will grow like a weed with nothing more than decent light. The redish ones are very pretty - though I don't know how much red they will keep under standard lighting.

I believe that altifrons get to be around a foot long, with others (red heads, orange heads) remaining around 6"-8". Gymnogeophagus stays around 4"-5".

Certainly going to add a coupld of extra pairs of cichlids into the tank. This is sort of what I need to consider next. I think the ultimate size of the geos will dictate just how small I can go with these cichlids (not sure if an apisto would ever come out of hiding around a 12" altifron).


Sorry for all the posts from me back-to-back - Just replying to all the wonderful feedback I got from you guys.

 

[jonclark96]

Red heads are 6" max. I have a pair that I've had for several years that are in the 5-6" range. As a pair, they beat the snot out of each other, so a larger group is definitely the way to go. Check on MFK, there is a guy in Georgia Peathenester (I think) that was selling 20 juvies shipped for $80.

I currently have mine in a 120 with my uaru, chocolates, and severums, along with the pair of rainbows I got from Holly. All of them get along pretty well (I have to think out some of the sevs as the biggest male is a bit of a bully to the others). Come up to the house and check them out.

 

[ltrepeter2000]

My rainbows give better than they get in the mixed tank they are in right now which is all cichlids larger than them other than a few sub adult Salvinis. They are about to move over to a 20 long to try to get some breeding going but they are pretty good about grouping together in the tank right now to fend off other fish.

 

[davidhusker]

This is exactly what I am going to be doing my next tank. Great Ideas everyone. Thanks and good luck Tony.

 

[hollyfish2000]

The rainbows IME hold their own when guarding fry, but don't go after other fish or even each other in any violent way. I don't get any deaths or maulings from mine except when the big daddy needs loving and his mate seems to get a bit scraped up . . .

Sam -- I'll take plants the next meeting! I love the guppy grass. Interestingly, the water sprite is doing really great in my 58 with the high light and not much of anything in the 40 with the low light. Am swapping out the 40 light soon, though, so will see if that makes a difference.

 

[Avatar]

Sam -- I'll take plants the next meeting! I love the guppy grass. Interestingly, the water sprite is doing really great in my 58 with the high light and not much of anything in the 40 with the low light. Am swapping out the 40 light soon, though, so will see if that makes a difference.

Done.