npbarca
Members
Could I add a little pure amonia to feed the safestart bacteria?
chriscoli
Administrator
You can but why? You have a beautifully seeded used filter ready to go! You're already ahead of the game!
npbarca
Members
I don't feel comfortable Doing all the cycling as soon as my 200$ worth of fish get here. I've never done a fishless cycle before so I'm a little reluctant.
chriscoli
Administrator
Yeah, I understand. I do it all the time, though. Ultimately, you need to do what makes you comfortable, but to be honest....adding ammonia to a tank also freaks me out. I'm not keen on the bottled stuff...other folks on this forum ARE in favor of it, so this is just my two cents worth. I would not trust $200 of new fish to a bottle of bacteria.
one other option you could do if you are able.....move the spare filter over, move a few fish from your existing tank over...feed as usual. Then, when new fish arrive, move old fish back to their tank and add new fish to the now-empty tank. Of course, if the tank of fish that you currently have is difficult to remove fish from or reintroduce fish to then this might not work well.
one other option you could do if you are able.....move the spare filter over, move a few fish from your existing tank over...feed as usual. Then, when new fish arrive, move old fish back to their tank and add new fish to the now-empty tank. Of course, if the tank of fish that you currently have is difficult to remove fish from or reintroduce fish to then this might not work well.
mchambers
Former CCA member
I agree with Christine. Since I got my third tank, I've always done the "use biomedia from an established filter" trick, and I've never lost a fish when starting a new tank (I'm up to 12 tanks now).
If you want to use SafeStart or Dr. Tim's to add another layer of protection, by all means do so, but don't move the biomedia or add the SafeStart until you're ready to add fish.
If you want to use SafeStart or Dr. Tim's to add another layer of protection, by all means do so, but don't move the biomedia or add the SafeStart until you're ready to add fish.
jonclark96
Past CCA President
I'm with Christine about adding ammonia straight to a tank. If you want to do the true "fishless cycle", there are plenty of articles about it on the internet, but from what I read, the process takes almost a month to complete. I understand your worry about putting $200 of fish in a new tank, but you already have everything you need. Established tanks are that way only because they have BB built up on the surface of the tank and the surfaces in the filter. It has nothing to do with the water in the tank.
My best example of using existing filters to start up a tank is from with Matt had his house fire several years ago. I was in the process of setting up a new tank, but still had it sitting in my garage when he called with the bad news. I literally moved the tank in the house, filled it with water, and headed to Matt's house. I returned several hours later with about 100 fish and a few of his sponge filters that were running in his tanks. I put all the fish and the filters in the tank right away. The tank was instantly ready to go. No different than if you took your existing tank, drained all the water out, and filled it back up. The bacteria don't care what vessel the water they are filtering comes from. As long as it has ammonia (and nitrite) to feed off of, they do their thing.
My best example of using existing filters to start up a tank is from with Matt had his house fire several years ago. I was in the process of setting up a new tank, but still had it sitting in my garage when he called with the bad news. I literally moved the tank in the house, filled it with water, and headed to Matt's house. I returned several hours later with about 100 fish and a few of his sponge filters that were running in his tanks. I put all the fish and the filters in the tank right away. The tank was instantly ready to go. No different than if you took your existing tank, drained all the water out, and filled it back up. The bacteria don't care what vessel the water they are filtering comes from. As long as it has ammonia (and nitrite) to feed off of, they do their thing.
npbarca
Members
Alright thanks guys
Localzoo
Board of Directors
Lots of good info on here
how big are the fish your getting?how many?
You might only have to do one water change if its more than the bacteria to handle but they reproduce and catch up to the bio load quickly.
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how big are the fish your getting?how many?
You might only have to do one water change if its more than the bacteria to handle but they reproduce and catch up to the bio load quickly.
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npbarca
Members
I'm getting a colony of adult Saulosi and a few juvies. 3 males and 8 females plus 6 juvies.
dogofwar
CCA Members
As many have said, a mature filter or three is all you need.
I've never added ammonia to a tank to "cycle" it.
Matt
I've never added ammonia to a tank to "cycle" it.
Matt
Localzoo
Board of Directors
Just start filtering now and feed the tank if its empty or add a few fish by the time you get your breeding colony you'll be ready
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cichlidaddicted
Members
This is always a topic that gets brought up often and gets pages of responses. Imo there is no one way that is set in stone and the correct answer is situational. If you have other tanks that are established and running well switch material not water and by material I mean media, substrate, plants and or decorations anything with surface area. Dont switch it all or the established tank will crash media is great because you can switch just a percentage of it. A few scoops of gravel is also very effective. If you don't have an established tank to use as a host then ammonia is the only other definitive way besides time and it will only happen in time with a catalyst (ammonia) time could range from 4-8 weeks or more. Also a test kit is your best friend test atleast once a day and this will tell you how far along you are.
Ammonia= beggining
Nitrite=partially
Nitrate= nitrification cycle complete
If you test nitrate that's good but it doesn't mean you can dump 300 fish in, it means there is enough bb to convert the fuel you provided (ammonia) if you only provided a small amount you may need to add more fuel.
Put simply take as much stuff as SAFELY possible out of another established tank and put it into the new tank ringing out a filter will help provide fuel and bb. Test a lot atleast once a day stuff like safe start does work but again fuel is required. Bacteria won't mutiply if there is nothing there for them to do (convert). Once you test nitrite add some more fuel (waste) once there is 0 ammonia 0 nitrite and imo atleast 5-10 ppm nitrate you should be good to add SOME fish. Sure you can dump them all in and it could work but you will need to be testing often and as soon as ammonia or nitrite appear start changing water quick. If the first few are okay do a 25-50% water change and add the rest. This is all my opinion, gained through experience and killing lots of fish. I'm sure its not perfect but it works. Keep us posted and if something doesn't seem right I'm sure the people here can help. Good luck
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Ammonia= beggining
Nitrite=partially
Nitrate= nitrification cycle complete
If you test nitrate that's good but it doesn't mean you can dump 300 fish in, it means there is enough bb to convert the fuel you provided (ammonia) if you only provided a small amount you may need to add more fuel.
Put simply take as much stuff as SAFELY possible out of another established tank and put it into the new tank ringing out a filter will help provide fuel and bb. Test a lot atleast once a day stuff like safe start does work but again fuel is required. Bacteria won't mutiply if there is nothing there for them to do (convert). Once you test nitrite add some more fuel (waste) once there is 0 ammonia 0 nitrite and imo atleast 5-10 ppm nitrate you should be good to add SOME fish. Sure you can dump them all in and it could work but you will need to be testing often and as soon as ammonia or nitrite appear start changing water quick. If the first few are okay do a 25-50% water change and add the rest. This is all my opinion, gained through experience and killing lots of fish. I'm sure its not perfect but it works. Keep us posted and if something doesn't seem right I'm sure the people here can help. Good luck
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We have done this a few times and here is what we have found...
Moving small amounts of filter media helps, but not immensely. In an established tank I think the substrate and rocks/plants/etc. all harbor surprisingly large amounts of bacteria. So moving some filter media helps seed things, but isn't the same as moving a fully bacteria colony.
We have used Dr. Tims and this also helps, but does not "instantly cycle."
We have done both and have done combinations of both and have checked on an at least daily basis the NH3, NO2, NH4 levels in the tank. We also have found in FFX county where they use chloramines that these are a real issue - changing water to get the NH3,NO2 levels done is much less effective than you would imagine as the chloramines are getting converted to NH3.
Per Dr. Tim (and it fits with our personal observations) the real roadblock isn't the NH3 eating bacteria, it is the NO2 eaters they both start going later in the typical cycle (as NH3 is the first waste product) but seem to grow more slowly.
What I have found is that adding both NH3 and NO2 (in the form of NaNO2*) has seemed to help move things along more quickly.
*I am too lazy to check I think it is NaNO2, might be KNO2, in any case it is something I bought a while back when I thought about making my own bacon. In the meat trade it is referred to as "pink salt" and I actually did consult Dr. Tim on using it and he thought it was a good idea. It certainly hasn't hurt any fish in tanks I have used it in (and it is obviously of a grade approved for human consumption at least sort of) and my anecdotal evidence is that it has sped up cycling IMO considerably. I think bottled bacteria + NH3 + NO2 reliably cycles a tank in a 1-2 weeks to the point it will process perhaps 5ppm of NH3 to nothing in less than 24 hours.
That said, just putting in media or bottled backeria may be "close enough" if you move enough media that the resulting mini-cycle may not be too bad for the fish. Using prime on the tanks appears to reduce the toxicity of both NH3 and NO2 so slightly imperfect cycling is likely to be buffered by that a bit as well. I really recommend using test kits when doing things like this to get a handle on what is happening.
Moving small amounts of filter media helps, but not immensely. In an established tank I think the substrate and rocks/plants/etc. all harbor surprisingly large amounts of bacteria. So moving some filter media helps seed things, but isn't the same as moving a fully bacteria colony.
We have used Dr. Tims and this also helps, but does not "instantly cycle."
We have done both and have done combinations of both and have checked on an at least daily basis the NH3, NO2, NH4 levels in the tank. We also have found in FFX county where they use chloramines that these are a real issue - changing water to get the NH3,NO2 levels done is much less effective than you would imagine as the chloramines are getting converted to NH3.
Per Dr. Tim (and it fits with our personal observations) the real roadblock isn't the NH3 eating bacteria, it is the NO2 eaters they both start going later in the typical cycle (as NH3 is the first waste product) but seem to grow more slowly.
What I have found is that adding both NH3 and NO2 (in the form of NaNO2*) has seemed to help move things along more quickly.
*I am too lazy to check I think it is NaNO2, might be KNO2, in any case it is something I bought a while back when I thought about making my own bacon. In the meat trade it is referred to as "pink salt" and I actually did consult Dr. Tim on using it and he thought it was a good idea. It certainly hasn't hurt any fish in tanks I have used it in (and it is obviously of a grade approved for human consumption at least sort of) and my anecdotal evidence is that it has sped up cycling IMO considerably. I think bottled bacteria + NH3 + NO2 reliably cycles a tank in a 1-2 weeks to the point it will process perhaps 5ppm of NH3 to nothing in less than 24 hours.
That said, just putting in media or bottled backeria may be "close enough" if you move enough media that the resulting mini-cycle may not be too bad for the fish. Using prime on the tanks appears to reduce the toxicity of both NH3 and NO2 so slightly imperfect cycling is likely to be buffered by that a bit as well. I really recommend using test kits when doing things like this to get a handle on what is happening.
