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Plenipotentiary-at-large
Enough already

Is it just dolphins you dislike being housed or is it all mammals? What about monkeys and lions and tigers and bears oh my at the zoo? My choc. Lab sitting next to me on the couch as i type this?

Not sure if you're being obtuse, trying to bait me or serious. I'll assume the lattermost. I think that by and large that wild creatures should be just that, more so as it pertains to intelligence or more specifically, the relative impact it has on their "being", normal behavior, imposition and disruption to what it is to be that particular animal/species. Cetaceans' home is a virtually infinite thee-dimensional expanse - not a shallow concrete pen where their sonar comes rocketing back at them from all sides - and they experience nothing remotely like the lives they live at sea among their kind. Definite non-starter. Other large brained highly-social mammals like elephants and primates similarly suffer from captivity, as do large truly feral and normally asocial predators, cats, wolves, bears, etc. Ruminants, even giraffes, seem resilient given adequate space. Rodents typically exist on the margins wherever they get away with it and don't seem to care. Domesticated animals (cats and dogs) wouldn't have it any other way - no issues there. I find captive birds to be tragic, especially caged and alone, but admit to envying and admiring falconers who release/hunt their birds most every day only to have them return when they could easily fly away forever. Fish are pretty simple-minded creatures, and provided they're well-fed and maintained, and can be spawned, obviously strike me as acceptable captives/clients. Invertebrates and microbes are generally oblivious to everything but heat, light predation and food, would like to encourage everyone to husband bugs, worms, and/or bacteria and the like.

And then there are Labs - loyal to a fault, ever ready. a bit slobbery or prone to excessive exuberance at times, and not the brightest bulbs in wolvish/canid terms but a friend is a friend is a friend for life. Long may you both run.
 

Ballen0351

Members
I wasnt trying to bait you. You have an interesting prespective on dolphins i was just curious if it was all mammals and large animals or just dolphins.
 

fischfan13

Banned

And then there are Labs - loyal to a fault, ever ready. a bit slobbery or prone to excessive exuberance at times, and not the brightest bulbs in wolvish/canid terms but a friend is a friend is a friend for life. Long may you both run.

Ok, here we go off-topic once again.:unsure:

If I recall correctly Retrievers are the 2nd smartest domesticated canine, with the Standard Poodle being first.
I own an English Golden Retriever...smart is an understatement.
Not that I am insulted with your statement Sam, I just really disagree with it.:)
 

UNCLERUCKUS

"THE ALL POWERFUL Q !!
Smartest Dogs

In his bestselling book, The Intelligence of Dogs, neuropsychologist Stanley Coren, PhD, focuses on trainability as a marker of intelligence.
The University of British Columbia psychology professor relied on the assessments of 110 breeds by more than 200 professional dog obedience judges who scored breeds based on working/obedience tests.
The top dogs absorbed commands in less than five repetitions and obeyed them 95% of the time or better. Here's the list, along with a breed description by the American Kennel Club:
1. Border Collie: A workaholic, this breed is the world's premier sheep herder, prized for its intelligence, extraordinary instinct, and working ability.
2. Poodle: Exceptionally smart and active. Bred to retrieve things from the water. The miniature variety may have been used for truffle hunting.
3. German Shepherd: The world's leading police, guard, and military dog -- and a loving family companion and herder.
4. Golden Retriever: Intelligent and eager to please. Bred as a hunting companion; ideal as a guide and as assistance with search-and-rescue operations.
5. Doberman Pinscher: Known for its stamina and speed. Bred to be a guardian and in demand as a police and war dog.
6. Shetland Sheepdog: The "Sheltie" is essentially a miniature working Collie. A rough-coated, longhaired working breed that is keenly intelligent. Excels in herding.
7. Labrador Retriever: An ideal sporting and family dog. Gentle and intelligent.
8. Papillon: A happy, alert breed that isn't shy or aggressive. Known as Dwarf Spaniels in the 16th and 17th centuries, they reach 8-11 inches high.
9. Rottweiler: Robust and powerful, the breed is happiest with a job. Suitable as a police dog, herder, service dog, therapy dog, obedience competitor, and devoted companion.
10. Australian Cattle Dog: Happiest doing a job like herding, obedience, or agility. Energetic and intelligent.

looks like the labs ratings have dropped considerably.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/sep/06/animalwelfare

"he hunts them down like truffles" too funny! sad but funny!
 

fischfan13

Banned
Ok so now you're going to take my post verbatum, eh? :p

I lumped "Retrievers" in as one.
I've own(ed) Goldens, not Labs.:p

My Golden knows the term "Pizza Crust".:D...enough said.:wub:
 

DiscusnAfricans

Past President
Funny how hybrid dogs are viewed completely different than fish in the pet world. There are many "designer dogs" out there that are intentional crosses between different dogs, some becoming so popular they are being recognized by the AKC.

Is a labradoodle the equivalent of an OB peacock? Some people love them, some people would never own one.

I'd take a mutt dog over a purebred anytime. Unless you're looking for a show dog, or a specific trait, mutts tend to be much healthier, and on average smarter than most purebreeds.
 

fischfan13

Banned
Funny how hybrid dogs are viewed completely different than fish in the pet world. There are many "designer dogs" out there that are intentional crosses between different dogs, some becoming so popular they are being recognized by the AKC.

Is a labradoodle the equivalent of an OB peacock? Some people love them, some people would never own one.

I'd take a mutt dog over a purebred anytime. Unless you're looking for a show dog, or a specific trait, mutts tend to be much healthier, and on average smarter than most purebreeds.

Well the AKC is one really screwed up animal group, but they do not recognize crosses. As a matter of fact they do not recognize English Goldens. But they are seriously one screwed up group...did I already say that?
 

DiscusnAfricans

Past President
Well the AKC is one really screwed up animal group, but they do not recognize crosses. As a matter of fact they do not recognize English Goldens. But they are seriously one screwed up group...did I already say that?
You're right, I had my facts mixed up. Did some quick research and learned the established difference between a "mutt" and a hybrid. Also seems like there are a lot of Anti-AKC people out there.

Its weird, even the Jack Russell Terrier isn't a fully recognized breed.
 

fischfan13

Banned
The AKC turns it "snout" when it comes to stopping puppy mills.
Many Pet Shops who buy from Puppy Mills end up having those puppies "Certified" by the AKC because the AKC wants the registration-monies more than they want to stop mills.
 

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Plenipotentiary-at-large
Bollocks to the AKC and obedience trials

Smartest dogs I ever met were basically unteachable because they thought for themselves - like coyotes, which would run intellectual circles around anything on the AKC list except maybe border collies. Additionally, hybrids are almost always healthier and more robust than "pure breeds" - more inherent resilience that accompanies genetic diversity known as "hybrid vigor" - would not be at all surprising if that also generally makes them "smarter" as well.

Have had two border collie hybrids - the first was half shepherd and the sliest creature on four legs I've ever met, spent the better part of one summer leaping over an eight foot fence and tearing around the neighborhood all day until she heard my car at which point she would run home so that she was innocently awaiting my arrival back inside the fence when I returned - people were telling me for weeks that she was running loose before I figured out her game. The other was one quarter coyote (her half-breed mother used to basically try to talk to people when she wanted something) and almost everything I ever tried to get her to do ended up with her looking at me like "What's the point" or if I was persistent enough she would eventually do what I asked and then sigh and throw herself down like it was just so such a waste of time.

Anyway, obedience/conditioning is hardly synonymous with intelligence. Best story of a smart dog I ever heard was one that lived with four others and liked to sound the alarm bark and lurch toward the front door at feeding time so that all the other dogs would run from the kitchen to fend off the phantom threat while he stayed behind and snarfed down some of everyone else's food.

Never really appreciated dogs until I realized that as descendants of wolves that they're still "pack" animals at heart and that the human/canine bond is enabled by dogs supplanting the traditional pack with a human owner(s) or family. Met a couple guys who summered with a group of "naive" (no previous human contact) wolves in the Brooks Range of Alaska one summer and were adopted into the pack. Great stories and amazing pictures - can't think of too many better ways to spend a summer.
 

Ballen0351

Members
My lab is just plain dumb or too smart and independant. He failed obedience school he had to stay an extra 2 weeks then they called and said come get your dog.
 
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