National Aquarium in Baltimore Visit Footage

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Plenipotentiary-at-large
Relax

Anything sold as dolphin in the US is mahi-mahi, a fish not a mammal, the former being a felony offense.

i would much more prefer to see dolphins in the display tank than in a sandwich..wait ! i seen them both =)

the show at baltimore's aquarium about 5-6 years ago was a new experience to me. short and pretty.
the sandwich i saw while waiting for my flight at miami airport...i got a feeling i can not express when i realized they were selling dolphin:mad: , i ordered another mammal im more familiar with, cow! ...just saying


back to topic, would be superfun if CCA was able to get some into some sort of tour activity. behind the scenes perharps?:wub::wub:
 

Avatar

Plenipotentiary-at-large
Last offering - I'm done.

The Vietnam War was far from beautiful. However, the photography and film showed the world what was actually happening. The reality shown in the video and images had an effect that rallied many American citizens into protest. In turn, eventually the American Government reversed it's previous aggressive actions. People are generally visual learners. If we see what is going on then we can act on it. Just like video evidence recorded by unnamed people showing the horrible actions from whalers and poachers.

You mean like this? http://vimeo.com/7784773 Very corny, dated and fraught with errors but I think it's what you're talking about. Partially covers the first 5 years of 25.

However, in my experience, although a documentary is informative (assuming it's quality of course) they don't hit home as hard as personal experience. Also, documentaries are biased (that's the point of them) so they will give a skewed interpretation on the reality. Now I think you'll agree with me, having nearly 7 billion citizens of the planet Earth all exploring the Cheseapeake Bay Watershed would cause more harm than good so why not bring them something they can explore. Better yet, why not make a hub where we can catch a small, artificial glimpse into even other worlds. Sure it's not as great as visiting the Great Barrier Reef but it's a lot less destructive than having millions of people visiting the GBR is it not? Visiting a location like the Baltimore Aquarium is like watching a documentary in person. You gain the emotion and excitement from personal experience while not straining the system you're learning about. These institutions are biased like documentaries but provide the inspiration that can make a difference.

The world's ocean's (where dolphins live) could easily accommodate 7 billion visitors though it's a lame argument as not everyone would care to make the trip. In any case You're making my earlier point which is that the (sur)reality of a dolphinarium is so far removed from every true aspect of any wild dolphin's actual life that its counter-educatonal. A dolphin show is a circus - hardly an exalted educational affair because the prized "experience" you're alluding to is so artificial and misleading that it's a lie, as are the resulting perceptions. I fail to see how learning that dolphins can be induced to do cartwheels and backflips for extra sardines is going to help save them anymore than old reruns of Flipper or Free Willy.

The atrocities from whaling and poaching can not be stopped without a strong public effort. In order to gain this backing the public needs to be educated fully on what is going on.

I just happen to know a little bit about this.

For example, at the Baltimore Aquarium, during the dolphin show, multiple videos play explaining the current environmental problems the Chesapeake Watershed is facing due to pollution, overfishing, development, and the introduction of invasive species. I'm not sure about you but the most apparent one of these to me is pollution. Whether I am walking around the Inner Harbor or driving down the highway on I-495 I see human-made artifacts polluting the environment. I can't pick up all the trash in the world but with the public's backing we can reduce the amount of waste that enters the watershed directly.

You're saying there were no videos on whaling or dolphin drive fisheries but the dolphins are the key to saving the Chesapeake? Right... Just how many dolphins actually live in the Chesapeake? Zero. Other than infrequent trips to forage they are rarely seen beyond the mouth of the Bay. That's like rationalizing captive elephants to save the redwoods.

As for you saying I think dolphins are fish you clearly misunderstood. I was talking in general. Most people associate fish with aquariums. Also at the aquarium are turtles like Calypso, the rescued Green Sea Turtle that had to have an emergency amputation of one of her front flippers. She would not have survived if it was not for the Baltimore Aquarium's programs intervention. She would not survive in the wild and quite frankly I believe it would be cruel to let her struggle.

I think I understood you perfectly - they were your words not mine. And a stranded turtle with a brain the size of a lentil is a bit different than a dolphin (bottlenose - captive of choice) with a brain bigger than yours, or do you still not see the difference?.

The dolphin show is artificial but does show pieces of natural behavior. In the wild, as you know, dolphins are incredibly acrobatic. These acrobatics may be used as a form of communication. Studying the animals in the wild can tell us lots but it's also much more difficult to get a closer look. Also, there are many variables we can't control in nature. By isolating the system we can control much more.

You are so talking out of the wrong orifice with zero experience to back up any of this and even less in the way of scientific literature to support your "position". I've known most of the pre-eminent dolphin researchers of the last 30 years and none of them studies "acrobatics" as a means of demystifying dolphins. The only real research that has ever been done or that can be done on dolphins in captivity (that control you mention skews everything) is on pathology - as in what kills them. Sea World and their ilk know more about that than anybody.

Believe whatsoever you wish, but until you actually have some real-world experience relating to public policy reforms and wild dolphins, you might consider the possibility that you're just engaging in lot of wishful thinking and practicing what's known as a reverse hypothesis - arranging the"facts" to fit your desired conclusions. With very very few exceptions, the real saviors of wildlife and species do not work in zoological parks or aquaria - they're in the field where it matters, or legislatures or international conservation fora, not perpetuating myths about the relevance of captive animals to conservation dynamics that hardly benefit a whit from the existence of gussied-up theme parks, swim-with programs or pseudo-educational venues.

When I was young I wanted nothing so much as to be a zookeeper one day, but the truth is that most of them serve people, not animals or their habitats, and nowhere is this more true than with dolphins. Cheers.
 

Chicklid

Members
That you are. So much for the educational value of public aquaria. Dolphins are not fish, but rather mammals, cetaceans to be precise, many of which have brains as large or larger than your own, and that are in some ways more complex than human brains. They are also one of the few if only other truly sentient species besides higher primates and elephants in that they are truly self-aware. If you can't see the difference then you haven't looked, aren't thinking or are in denial.

Dolphins are also the only wild species on the planet that value human life and there are countless stories of dolphins saving people lost at sea, from drowning or from sharks. They live in mobile aquatic communities, have lifelong relationships with family members and herdmates, a sixth sense of sonar alien to humans, experience a range of emotions and feelings as profound as humans (enough that captive ones have been known to simply give up and die from sorrow), and essentially exemplify those most exalted attributes normally reserved for Homo sapiens - intelligence and compassion. That they deserve to be free and left alone in the open sea rather than being forced to do twice/thrice daily circus acts in the confines of shallow concrete tanks where they invariably die prematurely for profit and the fleeting amusement of spectators is only just.

You know what happens when you try and anesthetize a dolphin? They die, because they don't have an involuntary respiratory mechanism. That means that every breath a dolphin takes in its entire life is conscious. You should try it for even an hour. It means they can't and don't take life - or the lives of others – for granted, and in that they are our betters.

They probably shouldn't save such shallow beings as humans. That's their mistake unfortunately.
 

Pat Kelly

CCA Member
Okay, guys. Let's not get too carried away with this.
Forum arguements are a not
Discussion is great though.

I believe in public aquariums.
I do not believe that dolphins should be there. The money they spent on building that part would have been better spent on fixing up the small outdated displays of different types of fish. I don't think that section of the aquarium lives up to my idea of the aquarium. To educate. Its a side show at best. A way to make money.
Do I support the aquarium? Yes
Do I buy tickets to see the dolphins? No
 
I was a former diver at NAIB for 3 years. My first year was on Pier 4 cleaning the dolphin tanks. I would go down from Lancaster every Tuesday morning and wait for the handlers to corral the dolphins out of one of the 4 tanks there and we would clean that tank. We weren't allowed to work with the dolphins in the tank for safety issues (they bite hard!). Sometimes the dolphins wouldn't cooperate and we wouldn't even get our feet wet and have to go home empty handed.

I think its important to point out that most of the dolphins there and in other institutions are not wild caught. Most if not all have been born in captivity and are traded around from one institution to another as needed. Those few that are wild caught are generally rescues that were rehabilitated. The dolphins are well cared for and great lengths are made to keep them entertained and healthy. Dolphins and other marine mammal shows are essential to keeping public aquariums solvent as this is what brings in the masses. They are the bread and butter of a public aquarium.

All that being said I never much cared for marine mammals in general and prefer the fish and invertebrates myself. That is why I enjoyed diving on Pier 3 in the Ray tray, Atlantic Coral Reef, and the occasional shark tank dive so much more!

Andy
 

fischfan13

Banned
I'm just hoping that one day someone will save MY Dolphins...

dolphan.jpg
 

AquaStudent

CCA Members
I see where you are coming from. I really do. But I also believe there is good in the world. The dolphins that are kept at the Baltimore Aquarium are helping their cause. They are raising awareness and gaining reputation. Yes, we both agree that it is artificial but it still shows how beautiful these creatures really are. The performers are also mostly captive bred or rescues. They have not existed in the wild, do not have a pod to survive with, or have been isolated from the wild for some time. I would love for a wild animal to return to freedom but also don't want the heartache of losing one we could keep safe. In my honest opinion, they are doing a great job in their current role winning over the hearts of young ones and old geasers alike which, in turn, is helping you do your job.

I absolutely love dolphins and wish that I could help them as much as you have but with that said I wouldn't be able to see a dolphin without visiting the Baltimore Aquarium. I don't have access to undercover trips to Japan or even a short trip down to Florida. The Aquarium brings that just out of reach world into some perspective.

When I see dolphins I'm inspired. I'm mesmerized by their grace, strength, and intelligence. I want to learn more about these creatures and protect them. I wouldn't get as strong of a feeling from watching Animal Planet or PBS. It would be great to see them out in their natural habitat but I just don't have that access.

Thank you very much for the work that you have done with your work overseas and currently. I have absolutely nothing against you but also wish that you would also look at the good in life. You've seen some horrible stuff. I was trying to find one of your videos but didn't look hard enough. I'll watch the video in full later tonight hopefully.

Lastly, I can not emphasize to you enough the fact that I know the difference between a dolphin and a fish. I understand how you could have interpreted my comment but really I was just sumarizing the life in the aquarium. Most people associate fish with aquariums but in fact there are often times dolphins, turtles, gators/caiman/crocs/etc., birds, insects, and aquatic invertebrates to just name a few. I'd rather not type all that every time. I hope you understand.

With that all said here is a little humor to restore to the discussion.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jc6aufHz-i0

@Fischfan13 - That is hilarious! Once the Dolphins are saved do you think we could save some assistance for my amigos team, the Buffalo Bills?

@AndyNarwhal - I'm extremely jealous of you. I would absolutely love to take a dive on Pier 3. The Wings of the Water exhibit is my absolute favorite! Rays are some of my favorite animals.
 
The ray tray were the best dive experiences I ever had. Feeding the Southerns in front of the window so people could see them eat, having the humongous roughtails come up and over your back like a giant living blanket (with a mouth like a giant vacuum), the cownose rays, like giant puppys, swarming all over you for a mouthful, and hovering in midwater quietly while tarpon darted in like torpedos to eat some krill you just released from your hand inches from your face were awesome experiences that I will always remember.

I miss it a lot. Can you tell?

Getting onto the dive teams is not easy but if your a diver and have the time to committ it's well worth the experience.

Andy
 

AquaStudent

CCA Members
The ray tray were the best dive experiences I ever had. Feeding the Southerns in front of the window so people could see them eat, having the humongous roughtails come up and over your back like a giant living blanket (with a mouth like a giant vacuum), the cownose rays, like giant puppys, swarming all over you for a mouthful, and hovering in midwater quietly while tarpon darted in like torpedos to eat some krill you just released from your hand inches from your face were awesome experiences that I will always remember.

I miss it a lot. Can you tell?

Getting onto the dive teams is not easy but if your a diver and have the time to committ it's well worth the experience.

Andy

That really would be quite an experience! Are you going to try to get back into it again? Sadly, I don't have any dive experience so it's a bit out of the question for me at the moment but sometime in the future that would be one of the most exhilarating experiences ever.
 

Pat Kelly

CCA Member
That really would be quite an experience! Are you going to try to get back into it again? Sadly, I don't have any dive experience so it's a bit out of the question for me at the moment but sometime in the future that would be one of the most exhilarating experiences ever.

He moved away from us..... :(
 

Avatar

Plenipotentiary-at-large
Mind in the water

I was a former diver at NAIB for 3 years. My first year was on Pier 4 cleaning the dolphin tanks. I would go down from Lancaster every Tuesday morning and wait for the handlers to corral the dolphins out of one of the 4 tanks there and we would clean that tank. We weren't allowed to work with the dolphins in the tank for safety issues (they bite hard!). Sometimes the dolphins wouldn't cooperate and we wouldn't even get our feet wet and have to go home empty handed.

Sounds like a riot. Really. But those dolphins were no more "dolphin" than a second or third generation human would be "human" that had been reared in a closet its whole life. Would you bite and not cooperate in that situation? Probably so, and possibly attempt to kill (which a dolphin could do if it so chose before you even knew you'd been murdered - fortunately they're not predisposed to such even when they've been rendered clinically insane). Have never heard of a wild dolphin biting a human being, including orcas. How about that....

I think its important to point out that most of the dolphins there and in other institutions are not wild caught. Most if not all have been born in captivity and are traded around from one institution to another as needed. Those few that are wild caught are generally rescues that were rehabilitated. The dolphins are well cared for and great lengths are made to keep them entertained and healthy. Dolphins and other marine mammal shows are essential to keeping public aquariums solvent as this is what brings in the masses. They are the bread and butter of a public aquarium.

This may be true these days as I haven't worked dolphins in a long time but I do recall US aquariums formerly and routinely laundering wild caught dolphins through foreign aquariums and holding facilities to mask their origins. Won't dispute the rest of it, but they still die young (and mostly neurotic/deranged), and just for the reocrd, Chattanooga and Monterrey to name two do not keep dolphins and are very solvent institutions and the only two truly educational aquariums I have visited of about a dozen.

All that being said I never much cared for marine mammals in general and prefer the fish and invertebrates myself. That is why I enjoyed diving on Pier 3 in the Ray tray, Atlantic Coral Reef, and the occasional shark tank dive so much more!

I recall an open water dive in Hawaii and seeing a half-dozen half-ton bottle-nose dolphin (any one of which could by itself could take out a great white shark) materialize out of the blue 50 meters away and come hurtling toward me so closely packed as to be almost touching, feeling their sonar reading me and resonating through my body and intensifying as they near ever so quickly and the whole gang of them blistering past easily close enough to touch and causing me to inadvertently be swept around in their wake to see them disappear and never having any thought of fear anxiety or anything but smiling rapturous astonishment and glee.

I remember free-swimming with the only spinner dolphin at the time ever to have ever survived rehabilitation in a rescue/release program in Florida before it's scheduled liberation and doing underwater corkscrews belly to belly inches apart over and over the length of the sea-pen until the sun went down.

A also recall a friend of mine in Hawaii (mammalian bodies have about the same specific gravity as seawater which basically gives dolphins a sort of x-ray vision and is one of the reasons it's so easy for them to tell when humans or other dolphins are in distress) who used to free dive with the local wild dolphins down to a depth of a 100 feet. He said that generally they would mostly ignore him above 30 feet (1 atmosphere of pressure), that at 60-70 feet (2 atmospheres of pressure) they would start ranging near in a loose circle 5-10 meters off, and that every time without fail he hit 100 feet (3 atmospheres of pressure and your body feels like its being squeezed by a giant hand and the risk of blacking out is very high) there would be a one or two dolphins literally right in his face ready to haul him up to the surface.

I could go on, but the point is, being acquainted with captive dolphins doesn't really tell anyone squat about what and who they really are.
 

Ballen0351

Members
Is it just dolphins you dislike being housed or is it all mammals? What about monkeys and lions and tigers and bears oh my at the zoo? My choc. Lab sitting next to me on the couch as i type this?
 

UNCLERUCKUS

"THE ALL POWERFUL Q !!
Is it just dolphins you dislike being housed or is it all mammals? What about monkeys and lions and tigers and bears oh my at the zoo? My choc. Lab sitting next to me on the couch as i type this?
LET IT GO BEFORE YOU HAVE PETA AND VEGANS TALKING ABOUT CHICKENS,PIGS, COWS, ELEPHANTS, ETC ON HERE. I MUST SAY THOUGH VERY INTERESTING POINTS. I LEARNED SOME THINGS FROM THIS THREAD. WHICH WAS COOL. THANKS GUYS ;)
 

fischfan13

Banned
LET IT GO BEFORE YOU HAVE PETA AND VEGANS TALKING ABOUT CHICKENS,PIGS, COWS, ELEPHANTS, ETC ON HERE. I MUST SAY THOUGH VERY INTERESTING POINTS. I LEARNED SOME THINGS FROM THIS THREAD. WHICH WAS COOL. THANKS GUYS ;)


...bad possible subjects may also be, bacon, baloney, hot dogs and pigs feet.
Jus' sayin'.
 
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