Keeping multiple apistogramma species in the same tank

chris_todd

Members
So at Aquafest, my wife and I became enamored with the apistogrammas that the Orsos had, and we bought three pair - macmasteri, cacatuoides, and agassizzi. All three pairs went into a heavily planted 90g tank. Did we do a bad thing?

Will these species cross-breed? Will they get aggressive with each other (to the point of lost fish or ragged fins)? We've already seen some aggressive behavior (including the females of one species harassing the males of other species). Having never kept apistos before, however, we're not sure how aggressive they'll get. Finally, will these guys leave Discus alone?

TIA for any and all advice.
 
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George

CCA Charter Member and person in charge of the we
If it is well planted you should be OK. The Apistos would like some caves. We are talking about Cichlids.

George
 

Andrewtfw

Global Moderators
They should not pose a problem for the discus. Apistos tend to occupy the lower portion of the tank. They are mildly territorial and will require their own caves/areas to look after. Though they like caves, apistos are not considered cave spawners.
 

jrpatter

Members
Provide multiple "cave like" structures for the apistos to hide/spawn in. Anthing will work as long is it is a small miche area for them to go into. The more niches you can create the happier and better the apistos will cope with each other.

In the wild most apistos spawn in leaf litter and other debris in slow moving/no moving water so just keep that in mind when planning the tank. Also NO cories they dont get along with apistos.

John
 

Jumbie

Members
Provide multiple "cave like" structures for the apistos to hide/spawn in. Anthing will work as long is it is a small miche area for them to go into. The more niches you can create the happier and better the apistos will cope with each other.

In the wild most apistos spawn in leaf litter and other debris in slow moving/no moving water so just keep that in mind when planning the tank. Also NO cories they dont get along with apistos.

John

I agree chris the caves they have the more likely they would succeed and breed for you I picked up some great "Love Huts" at the aqua fest. I have to find the man and his wines name for you but they had make them and my apistos love them. A small clay pot well do just fine as well it al depends on how u want it to look.

Posted via mobile.capitalcichlids.org
 

Jumbie

Members
Sorry for all the miss spelled words, I have big hands and these blackberry key boards are so darn small lol.

Posted via mobile.capitalcichlids.org
 

mscichlid

Founder
The fish will not bother the discuss unless they spawn and the discus get to close to the brood.

Mixing apistogramma is a crap shoot. On thing to consider if the species are of the same complex. Agassizii have a tendency to be the most evil, IMHO. Also, as you have found out, the males may not always be the most aggressive. You may have to try to setup three territories... one on the left, one in the middle and one on the right of the tank and let them sort it out. Good luck.
 

Tony

Alligator Snapping Turtle/Past Pres
Also NO cories they dont get along with apistos.

Really? Darn.. got some apistos from Mike Barber at the last meeting and was planning on housing them with some albino cories. Will they nip at the cories? I figured that with as active as albinos are, they'd sort of act as dithers.
 

chris_todd

Members
Really? Darn.. got some apistos from Mike Barber at the last meeting and was planning on housing them with some albino cories. Will they nip at the cories? I figured that with as active as albinos are, they'd sort of act as dithers.

Yeah, I was bummed when I saw that comment as well, since the 90g already had 6 sterbai cory. I haven't seen any aggression yet, so I'll keep an eye out for that.

Re: the caves - Francine, last night, I did exactly as you suggest - three small pots, on the far left, back center, and far right, each with numerous plants surrounding it, so we'll see if they take to those.

Jumbie, I thought the vendor with the clay caves were the fine folks from plecocaves.com, but on visiting that website, I'm not sure that was them. You're right, though, I wish I had bought a few of their caves, they were nice. Anyone know who they were, and whether they have a website?
 

DiscusnAfricans

Past President
Jumbie, I thought the vendor with the clay caves were the fine folks from plecocaves.com, but on visiting that website, I'm not sure that was them. You're right, though, I wish I had bought a few of their caves, they were nice. Anyone know who they were, and whether they have a website?
It was south american cichlids. I don't remember the website, but I have the card at home with the site and email address on it. You might be able to find them in the vendor section fo the aquafest website. I'll post the info later tonight if no one beats me to it.

I bought a "love cave" for my new apistos and a calvus cave too. They are great people, and will be at the OCA.
 

DiscusnAfricans

Past President
Yeah, I was bummed when I saw that comment as well, since the 90g already had 6 sterbai cory. I haven't seen any aggression yet, so I'll keep an eye out for that.

Re: the caves - Francine, last night, I did exactly as you suggest - three small pots, on the far left, back center, and far right, each with numerous plants surrounding it, so we'll see if they take to those.

Jumbie, I thought the vendor with the clay caves were the fine folks from plecocaves.com, but on visiting that website, I'm not sure that was them. You're right, though, I wish I had bought a few of their caves, they were nice. Anyone know who they were, and whether they have a website?

I got impatient and had to look. From their website:

[FONT="Trebuchet MS", Arial, Helvetica][SIZE=5][COLOR=white][B]About southcentralcichlids.com[/B][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT="Trebuchet MS", Arial, Helvetica][SIZE=4]
[COLOR=#ffe7a5][/COLOR][COLOR=#ffe7a5]Steve Hallgring[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#ffe7a5]Nancy Villars/Hallgring[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#ffe7a5]214 Wilson Ave[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#ffe7a5]Port Monmouth NJ 07758[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#ffe7a5]Email [/COLOR][EMAIL="sccichlids@aol.com"]sccichlids@aol.com[/EMAIL]
732 787 0654 home
732 207 6540 cell

[/SIZE][/FONT]
 

George

CCA Charter Member and person in charge of the we
Provide multiple "cave like" structures for the apistos to hide/spawn in. Anthing will work as long is it is a small miche area for them to go into. The more niches you can create the happier and better the apistos will cope with each other.

In the wild most apistos spawn in leaf litter and other debris in slow moving/no moving water so just keep that in mind when planning the tank. Also NO cories they dont get along with apistos.

John
Well I wasn't going to comment but since some of you jumped on this I must. I know John and he is just like the rest of us, human. I wouldn't dispute him if he was a Cory but he isn't. I always keep/kept my Apistos in a tank by themselves and only one species to a tank. I had a fair amount of luck. That does not mean my way is the only way to go. I used to be active in the Apisto forum and many of them used Corys as dithers. Some of the better Apisto breeders used to drop to Corys in their breeding tanks. It worked for them. The black water Apistos live in the same environment and we catch them close together in the wild. Hey John, :lol::lol:Maybe that's why they don't get along?

If you keep your Apistos with Discus I sure hope you don't ever hope to see a next generation.

George
 

chris_todd

Members
If you keep your Apistos with Discus I sure hope you don't ever hope to see a next generation.

George

Color me shallow, but I keep cichlids because they're pretty and colorful and fun to watch. :) I don't care much about breeding them, that's not really my thing. If they breed, and some of the fry survive and grow up, cool, good for them. If they end up as Discus snacks, well, so much the better for the Discus. :D
 

mscichlid

Founder
Oh yeah, that's right...plants first fish second.:) We're fishheads! However, we just want for you not to waste your money when the fish start to breed and start to anihilate each other.
 

George

CCA Charter Member and person in charge of the we
Color me shallow, but I keep cichlids because they're pretty and colorful and fun to watch. :) I don't care much about breeding them, that's not really my thing. If they breed, and some of the fry survive and grow up, cool, good for them. If they end up as Discus snacks, well, so much the better for the Discus. :D
Hey Chris,
We talked at the fest and I don't care what you do with your fish. It's all good but this post doesn't figure with your original. Those midgets could never hurt your Discus and, since you obviously couldn't care less, so what if they cross. Be assured, the Discus would certainly eat them. It does seem too bad you only feel at home with the lower life forms. Maybe that's why we got along.

George
 

chris_todd

Members
Hey Chris,
We talked at the fest and I don't care what you do with your fish. It's all good but this post doesn't figure with your original. Those midgets could never hurt your Discus and, since you obviously couldn't care less, so what if they cross. Be assured, the Discus would certainly eat them.
Maybe I shouldn't try to be flippant in posts, it always seems to get me in trouble, LOL.

I *do* care if they will cross, which is why I asked the question in the first place. I wouldn't want to inadvertently generate hybrids through my ignorance, because that would be irresponsible.

To clarify my comment about "discus snacks", I was referring to the fry, not the adults. Not sure if that was clear, or if it changes your interpretation of my comments. I wouldn't want my discus to eat the adult apistos I purchased (I didn't buy them as discus food, after all), but if the apistos (or any other fish in my tanks, including the discus) were to breed and generate fry, well, the fry are on their own.

It does seem too bad you only feel at home with the lower life forms. Maybe that's why we got along.
LOL, I don't know if that's a compliment or an insult! :) Maybe I should buy you a beer after the next CCA meeting so we can discuss it.

Oh yeah, that's right...plants first fish second.
Well, I wouldn't go that far! (Again, my flippant comment gets me in trouble) I keep plants and fish together because I like trying to replicate nature (as futile as that really is in a small glass box). I don't have any pure plant tanks, nor do I have fish tanks without plants. For me, fish and plants are a package deal; if you have one, you need the other. I don't mean to imply that someone keeping fish in completely empty glass bottom tanks is doing anything wrong; there are a lot of good reasons to keep fish in otherwise empty tanks. It's just that my preference is to keep fish and plants together. The nice thing about this hobby is there's room for a lot of different approaches.

However, we just want for you not to waste your money when the fish start to breed and start to annihilate each other.
And I really appreciate that you're taking care of me, Francine. That is exactly the kind of info I needed when I posted my question. If the apistos will get super nasty should a pair happen to breed, I don't want the tank turning into a war zone.

I'll end by answering my own question ("Did we do a bad thing?"), based on what I've learned in this thread. Yeah, probably. Well, maybe not "bad", but probably unwise. I should have learned by now that I should do more research *before* buying fish, about what environment they need, their behaviors, etc. I was not completely ignorant about apistos before I bought them, but now I know more (and thank you everyone for the education). I will probably separate the three pairs, and put each in separate tanks. Live and learn (but hey, at least I'm *learning*!) :)
 
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danger_chicken

Swim Fishy Swim!
Color me shallow, but I keep cichlids because they're pretty and colorful and fun to watch. :) I don't care much about breeding them, that's not really my thing. If they breed, and some of the fry survive and grow up, cool, good for them. If they end up as Discus snacks, well, so much the better for the Discus. :D
I feel the same. I look at breeding as a way to provide fresh snacks for the tank mates (and why I generally give away fry instead of selling them). I use the breeding to help guage the happiness and healthiness of the fish. Everyone has their reasons for being in this hobby and it all points back to what part (of the many parts) that brings you the most enjoyment.

I find myself in LFS all the time researching fish on my blackberry. It's kept me from bring home cute little fish that will grow into monsters that wont go well in the tank I was planning on putting them in. I love technology!
 
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chris_todd

Members
Well, I moved the A. macmasteri (they were easiest to catch) to a heavily planted 20 long they will share with some cories, red cherry shrimp, and (for the moment - I may remove them) two kribs.

Earlier tonight, I was observing the 90g to see how the agassizii and cacatuoides were getting along, when I noticed the female cacatuoides hanging out near the outside of a clay pot I had placed in there a few days earlier. On further examination, I can see a clutch of red eggs attached to the outside of the pot. I brought these fish home last Saturday... clearly they like this tank. I haven't seen any aggression between the cacatuoides and agassizii yet, but the two pairs seem to have taken up territories on opposite sides of a heavily planted four foot tank, so we'll see. If they get nasty, I'll yank the agassizii and put them in my 20 high planted community tank.
 

George

CCA Charter Member and person in charge of the we
Sounds good Chris. Also sounds like you are having fun. That's what you are supposed to do. Be as flippant as you like. There's a lot of that going around on this forum. Folks who take posts toooo seriously are ussually in for it here.

We don't have a problem but the stained glass pub across the street from our meeting place has plenty of beer, Ask Josh:lol: We can thrash out anything you like.

George

George
 
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