Bap Award Species Count

[mscichlid]

Do you think that some of these numbers are kinda' low? We do have a lot of accomplished breeders in this club and I think we should raise the bar. What do y'all think?

1. Achievement Level Awards.
a. BAP Awards will be presented to CCA members who attain the following levels of breeding achievement:

(1) Breeder - 50 points (5 species minimum) - Certificate ( suggestion: 10)
(2) Intermediate - 200 points (10 species minimum) - Certificate (I suggest 20)
(3) Advanced - 450 points (15 species minimum) - Plaque (suggestion - 35)
(4) Master - 1000 points (35 species minimum) - Plaque (suggestion - 50)
(5) Grand Master- 1500 points (50 species minimum) - Plaque and a one-year subscription to Cichlid News. (100 species)

 

[longstocking]

ok, I dunno about this. I think the majority of our members only have 5 tanks or so on average. Yes, there are a few of us that have quite a few, but I don't know if we should gear this towards the few of us that have 10+ tanks.

If we do change this... which I'm not against, just would like to hear thoughts, the points should also change not just the amount of species. Keep in mind we will all be getting quite a few point in the beginning due to the fact you get double points when you are the first to breed them for BAP in the CCA.

 

[cyradis4]

I think we should gear it to the people with LESS tanks, but have it on a sliding scale. Ie,

(1) Breeder - 50 points (5 species minimum) - Certificate ( suggestion: 10) - Keep the same to increase participation

(2) Intermediate - 200 points (10 species minimum) - Certificate (I suggest 20) - Increase to 300 points but keep the same number of species. This encourages "extra" work, more difficult species, or using more species

(3) Advanced - 450 points (15 species minimum) - Plaque (suggestion - 35) - I suggest 600 points and would like 25 species.

(4) Master - 1000 points (35 species minimum) - Plaque (suggestion - 50) - I'd say 1500 points and 50 species. Chances are, by this time you are hooked into the competition and aren't going to stop. Also, those with many tanks will fairly easily achieve intermediate and advanced, and need a bit more of a challenge.

(5) Grand Master- 1500 points (50 species minimum) - Plaque and a one-year subscription to Cichlid News. (100 species) - I say 3000 points and 100 species. This should go only to the very best and most dedicated breeders.

Later!
Amanda.

 

[longstocking]

OK .. lets put this into reality....

I guess I'm one of those people that breed a lot of fish. I so far have 700+ points but have only bred around 10+ species. I didn't submit forms over the years of all the species I have bred though. Just a few. I'm sure francine is in the same boat... and she has 500+ 10 species. ON the other hand Pat has about 400 and has 14 species. This is just to give you an idea of what we are looking at in terms of ratio of species vs points.

Both of us have no where near the amount of species that corresponds with the points ... due to the fact we have gotten double points or triple points because of the bonus points.

Just some thoughts for you guys to ponder.

Maybe raise the points quite a bit so it works with the species number.

Something like this makes more sense to me:

1) Breeder - 200 points (5 species minimum) - Certificate
(2) Intermediate - 500 points (10 species minimum) - Certificate
(3) Advanced - 1000 points (25 species minimum) - Plaque
(4) Master - 2000 points (50 species minimum) - Plaque
(5) Grand Master- 3000 points (80 species minimum) - Plaque and a one-year subscription to Cichlid News.

Take a look at this as well... anyone think we need to re-do this? Are we still giving out free membership to anyone that achieves " grand master". I like the fact Ron will do water changes for a month though ! lol HA HA HA HA

b. Once 1500 points are attained, the breeder will receive a plaque for each additional 500 points. (If 5000 points are attained, Ron Nielson will clean and change the water in the CCA member's tanks for a month.)
c. Meeting the following criteria can attain a lifetime membership: 1500 points, 10 articles published in the bulletin, and three programs delivered to the membership at monthly meetings.

 

[marge618]

Do you think that some of these numbers are kinda' low? We do have a lot of accomplished breeders in this club and I think we should raise the bar. What do y'all think?

1. Achievement Level Awards.
a. BAP Awards will be presented to CCA members who attain the following levels of breeding achievement:

(1) Breeder - 50 points (5 species minimum) - Certificate ( suggestion: 10)
(2) Intermediate - 200 points (10 species minimum) - Certificate (I suggest 20)
(3) Advanced - 450 points (15 species minimum) - Plaque (suggestion - 35)
(4) Master - 1000 points (35 species minimum) - Plaque (suggestion - 50)
(5) Grand Master- 1500 points (50 species minimum) - Plaque and a one-year subscription to Cichlid News. (100 species)[/b]

Hi All,
A few words in support for those of us who are relatively new to cichlids. And for those perspective members who we all hope will join and raise our membership numbers to 200...

In order to appeal to the 'new breeders' as well as raise the bar to challenge accomplished breeders... I suggest that you make sure that you have at least 3 goals achievable by the 'newbies' you wish would join the club. Maybe even add a level between Breeder and Intermediate. and a level between intermediate and advanced... (Remember what is was like when you first got hooked on Cichlids!)

Thus you would have
1) 50 points 5 species minimum Certificate
2) 100 points 10 species minimum Certificate
3) 200 points 15 species minimum Plaque
4) 400 points 20 species minimum Plaque
5) 1000 points 25 species minimum Plaque
6) 1500 points 50 species minimum Plaque and One Year subscription to Cichlid News
7) 1500 points 80 species minimum Plaque and One Year subscription to Cichlid News
Once 1500 points are attained the breeder will receive a plaque for each additional 500 points
Insert the appropriate titles...
Later,
Marge

 

[marge618]

ok, I dunno about this. I think the majority of our members only have 5 tanks or so on average. Yes, there are a few of us that have quite a few, but I don't know if we should gear this towards the few of us that have 10+ tanks.

If we do change this... which I'm not against, just would like to hear thoughts, the points should also change not just the amount of species. Keep in mind we will all be getting quite a few point in the beginning due to the fact you get double points when you are the first to breed them for BAP in the CCA.[/b]

Yes Sarah, those who were part of CCA in the beginning received extra points every time they were the first in the club to breed a species. Members joining in 2008 might never accrue any of those extra points. Adjusting points and species should address more the needs of people we hope to attract to the club. It would also ensure that the awards were not reserved only for those who were in the club when it was new.
Later,
Marge

 

[longstocking]

There are many ways to get double points though marge. If you auction them off you get double as well. So this will apply for people in the future. If they are endangered 25 points. Threatened 15 points. If you write an article 25 points.

LOTS of points to be made in serveral different ways.

I'm not shooting your idea down by all means.... just trying to look at all aspects.

 

[longstocking]

Now that I've thought about it a bit more... what do you think about this. I like marges idea... but with a bit of tweaking.

1) Beginner : 50 points 5 species minimum Certificate
2) Intermediate beginner : 100 points 10 species minimum Certificate
3) Intermediate : 400 points 15 species minimum Certificate
4) Intermediate advanced : 750 points 20 species minimum Certificate
5) Advanced : 1000 points 35 species minimum Plaque
6) Master : 1500 points 50 species minimum Plaque and One Year subscription to Cichlid News
7) Grand master: 2500 points 100 species minimum Plaque and One Year subscription to Cichlid News

 

[JustRon]

If I have to clean tanks, I am doing it in my birthday suit.

I think more species per category is the way to go. We are trynig to get more fish into the club, not just more of the same species.

1 = 10
2 = 15
3 = 20
4 = 35
5 = 50
6 = 75
7 = 100

 

[maddog10]

The members who are getting their old BAP points caught up deserve to get them. They were the ones bringing the fish in, writing the articles and auctioning off the fry. They were active in the program even though it was not really pushed. Now that we have more members there is obviously more interest. Remember this is not a contest, we are not supposed to be competing with each other (I am going to win anyway) and it does not end. Your points keep going on forever, or as long as you are a member of the club. There are thousands of cichlid species out there, pick one or more that are not already listed and bring new blood into the area.

 

[marge618]

If I have to clean tanks, I am doing it in my birthday suit.

I think more species per category is the way to go. We are trynig to get more fish into the club, not just more of the same species.

1 = 10
2 = 15
3 = 20
4 = 35
5 = 50
6 = 75
7 = 100[/b]

Yes, Ron, I agree. One of the exciting features of this club is that there are many species at the auction. That's why "More fish into the club" is important. So is 'more breeders into the club'. However, 'more people into the club' is important too.

To make the club stronger - increase membership, get more people involved in the breeders program, and get more species into the club - there needs to be a ladder of points that involves all of us.

I think this might do all three:
1 = 5
2 = 10
3 = 15
4 = 20
5 = 35
6= 50
7 = 75
8 = 100

Yes, Maddog, I agree. All of the work done so far by " the ones bringing the fish in, writing the articles and auctioning off the fry" should be recognized.

As recognition and generating interest in breeding are important the BAP achievements could be included in the monthly meetings. It is remarkable that you guys have accrued near 500 points and counting! You are why the club is so exciting.

Later,
Marge

 

[maddog10]

Marge,

You will find that the BAP Program while fun, is not one of the main reasons a person joins a club. Lots of clubs have BAP and usually only a small percentage of the membership participates. On the other hand a large portion of the club benefits from BAP when the fish hit the auction block or are offered up for sale. I think that adjusting the BAP levels will help to get a few more people involved, but I do not think a total overhaul is required, or will do much good. What we don't want to do is make it so complicated that no one wants to be BAP chairman. The easier it is to manage the better it will be.

 

[longstocking]

I have to talk to Pat about this... but I want to do away with "free membership" if you reach grand master. We'll figure out something to replace it. Maybe a cool filter or something. Anyone have any other ideas? Also, I would like to recognize in some way the top breeder each year. Ideas?

I like Ron's point system. Now to figure out how many points to go with the species.

1 = 10 150 points
2 = 15 250
3 = 20 350
4 = 35 500
5 = 50 1000
6 = 75 1500
7 = 100 2000


We aren't going to make Ron punish all of us ! So that will be eliminated.

 

[cyradis4]

The problem I have is it makes it almost impossible for people with only a few tanks to participate. Between the high species count and high point count for the first two divisions, most small keepers will look at it and say "Why bother? Its too hard and I don't have that much space" and we want to get people more involved. For the third and higher divisions, the point/species count is fine, I have no problem with it.

Later!
Amanda.

 

[longstocking]

Please remember this is on going. It doesn't just stop at the end of the year.... it goes on and on and on and on ( as long as the club is in existance )!!! Maybe I'll include a 5 species catagory. The fact of the matter is the peeple with only a few tanks don't participate in this. It just doesn't happen. If you have lets say 2 tanks. They are usually for enjoyment and not breeding.

 

[Pat Kelly]

In most clubs it takes years to get up to the 3rd or 4th cat. When I started 7 years ago, I only had 2 types of fish. Yellow labs and Demasoni. Don't get discouraged. It is supposed to be fun and will take everyone a long time to get to the top. It is just one more thing to make the club interesting. Not supposed to be a contest per say, just one more item to do and enjoy.

I do think that the original 5 species should be kept for the first cat. You want everyone to be able to get the first with a little effort. We have always had it at 5 otherwise you would have to take my old certificate away..... Have fun finding it right now...lol...

(1) Breeder - 50 points (5 species minimum) - Certificate

 

[longstocking]

ok I'm on my way.... revoking your award as of right now ! LOLOL

Ok we'll include a 5 species bracket.

 

[Pat Kelly]

Or make it somewhere in between. Just not out of reach.

 

[animicrazy]

I have a lot of tanks and a lot of fish and I don't know what half of them are (Amanda does - I hope!) and I plan to have lots more of all so big species counts don't scare me but:

There is a good point to having "entry level" rungs on the ladder (I agree with Marge and Pat).

I am not a person who believes that just because 'that's the way it's always been' means that it has to stay that way - people with two or three tanks can, and should, be encouraged to breed fish. IT'S EXITING!!!!!!

Just the ramblings of a madman,

paul.

 

[kaj41354]

I agree with you all on having the early rungs easy to reach. I started not all that long agawith 1-29g show tank, 1-20L and 1 -10 with Goodeids. I just counted today and I now have 33 tanks with a total of 535 gallons of water and all but 1 75g will be dedicated to breeding as soon as I can get into the construction mode. My point is that by encouraging a person who may have only 1,2, or 3 tanks, you have no idea what may happen but without our guidance and encouragement that person will surely be the next person to give up on the hobby. Sorry I got so lengthy but as the ACLC's BAP chairman it is something I am very passionate about.