minifoot77
Members
i don't call him the mad plumber for no reason
if you get a chance ask him about his filter system he created a self cleaning 250? micron stainless steel filter screen/sump thingy
i don't call him the mad plumber for no reason
if you get a chance ask him about his filter system he created a self cleaning 250? micron stainless steel filter screen/sump thingy
chris_todd
Members
Tony,
Thanks for bumping this thread, it has got me thinking about fish room design again.
The thing that makes me paranoid about all automatic water changing systems that do not try to account for chloramine is that your municipal water supply can decide to change their water treatment regimen on a moment's notice (without public notice), and start treating the water with chloramines, when last week they only used chlorine.
Remember their primary interest is not amateur fish keepers, but public safety, and if there are sudden changes in the quality of their water quality (an algae bloom, bacteria outbreak, etc.), they could decide they suddenly want to use chloramines.
So might I suggest using something like an auto-doser that draws from a reservoir of Prime or an equivalent chloramine-neutralizer. I seem to remember that Li modified his system to use some sort of liquid doser that drew from a reservoir of prime, but I can't find the link right now...
Thanks for bumping this thread, it has got me thinking about fish room design again.
The thing that makes me paranoid about all automatic water changing systems that do not try to account for chloramine is that your municipal water supply can decide to change their water treatment regimen on a moment's notice (without public notice), and start treating the water with chloramines, when last week they only used chlorine.
Remember their primary interest is not amateur fish keepers, but public safety, and if there are sudden changes in the quality of their water quality (an algae bloom, bacteria outbreak, etc.), they could decide they suddenly want to use chloramines.
So might I suggest using something like an auto-doser that draws from a reservoir of Prime or an equivalent chloramine-neutralizer. I seem to remember that Li modified his system to use some sort of liquid doser that drew from a reservoir of prime, but I can't find the link right now...
chris_todd
Members
I finally found the thread where Li described what he used to dose Prime:
http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74275
And here is a link to the DosMatic minidos:
http://www.dosmatic.com/categories.php?lang=en&engid=9
Though you probably already knew about that. The hard part is not draining the tanks, but refilling them, of course...
Last edited:
rich_one
Members
Hey Danger_Chicken... tell me about your filter system you created!i don't call him the mad plumber for no reason
If I ever get to redesign my basement, I am SO going to contract you out regarding getting my aquariums plumbed... assuming, of course, you allow me to contract you out! LOL...
-Rich
Andrewtfw
Global Moderators
While I understand little of what has been discussed and described so far, I am greatly interested in following this thread. I also think that Mike should start an additional thread showcasing his filter. Tony- thanks for sparking all of this.
Tony
Alligator Snapping Turtle/Past Pres
Great video I just came across.... a system for changing water on one tank, but has some great principles and explanations of hardware that would come in handy for any system.
[YT]31EM6OmuGxI[/YT]
[YT]31EM6OmuGxI[/YT]
jonclark96
Past CCA President
I would love to have a set up like that on my tanks. Maybe one day...
Charlutz
Members
That's pretty slick. I wonder with all the technology whether it creates more potential fail points. Nice to not have to do manual changes. I'd take the risk.
Something to keep in mind with drip change systems is that it takes more water to effectively reduce the same percentage of tank waste if you drained old water and then refilled with clean water in two distinct steps. For instance, if you were changing 25% of the water in a 100g tank in two steps, you could drain 25g and then refill 25g. If you were using a drip system and wanted to get the same effective reduction of nitrate, you'd need to add more than 25g because you'd be losing some of the clean water (mixed with old water) as you were adding/draining simultaneously. I remember seeing a formula over on the big forum years ago. I'll see if I can find it. Not sure how accurate it could be as there probably wouldn't be a perfect mix of old/new water, but someone professed some expertise.
Something to keep in mind with drip change systems is that it takes more water to effectively reduce the same percentage of tank waste if you drained old water and then refilled with clean water in two distinct steps. For instance, if you were changing 25% of the water in a 100g tank in two steps, you could drain 25g and then refill 25g. If you were using a drip system and wanted to get the same effective reduction of nitrate, you'd need to add more than 25g because you'd be losing some of the clean water (mixed with old water) as you were adding/draining simultaneously. I remember seeing a formula over on the big forum years ago. I'll see if I can find it. Not sure how accurate it could be as there probably wouldn't be a perfect mix of old/new water, but someone professed some expertise.
Spine
Members
This thread was just starting to get rolling a while back and then it seems like everyone got too busy.I'm hoping Mike will school us on everything he knows I'm ready to go auto.
verbal
CCA Members
The theoretical formula for x(effective water change) in terms of y(the water added in a drip system) is:
x = (y/(1-y))
In your example
x = .25/(1-.25) = .25/.75 = .333333
So it would take 33.3 gallons to "change 25".
The drip system does have the advantage of not adjusting conditions as quickly as normal water changes. Also the ratio gets worse the higher your target effective water change is. It takes dripping 100% of the tank volume to generate a 50% water change. To get a 75% water change you would need to drip in 300% of the water volume.
x = (y/(1-y))
In your example
x = .25/(1-.25) = .25/.75 = .333333
So it would take 33.3 gallons to "change 25".
The drip system does have the advantage of not adjusting conditions as quickly as normal water changes. Also the ratio gets worse the higher your target effective water change is. It takes dripping 100% of the tank volume to generate a 50% water change. To get a 75% water change you would need to drip in 300% of the water volume.
That's pretty slick. I wonder with all the technology whether it creates more potential fail points. Nice to not have to do manual changes. I'd take the risk.
Something to keep in mind with drip change systems is that it takes more water to effectively reduce the same percentage of tank waste if you drained old water and then refilled with clean water in two distinct steps. For instance, if you were changing 25% of the water in a 100g tank in two steps, you could drain 25g and then refill 25g. If you were using a drip system and wanted to get the same effective reduction of nitrate, you'd need to add more than 25g because you'd be losing some of the clean water (mixed with old water) as you were adding/draining simultaneously. I remember seeing a formula over on the big forum years ago. I'll see if I can find it. Not sure how accurate it could be as there probably wouldn't be a perfect mix of old/new water, but someone professed some expertise.
Charlutz
Members
Thank you! Did some searches and couldn't find it.
Tony
Alligator Snapping Turtle/Past Pres
Yeah, I was reading up on that over on MFK yesterday. I think occasional big water changes will still end up happening every other week or so just though vacuuming the substrate into the drain. This lowers the water level, effectively increasing the percentage of new water into the mix.
Cutting back to having to do real actual work every 2-3 weeks would be fine with me.
dogofwar
CCA Members
There was an article in TFH in the last year or so that did an analysis of small daily water changes vs. larger, less frequent ones. And larger, less frequent ones worked in terms of waste dillution. As someone who's used a drip system for years, I prefer a combination of the two (daily drip + larger water changes / vaccuum crud).
I have a step by step on how to put together an auto water change system in the last Biotope (I think) that we published. If someone could scan it and put it online, I'd be happy to answer questions.
The way I built mine, adding water and tank water out are separate systems...so there's nothing keeping me (you) from manually siphoning tanks 1/3 or whatever and then adding water (dripping) to all of them simultaneously (to fill). Drains on each tank ensure that I don't overfill.
My systems have not automated the dechlor process. I just drip a bit of Prime or whatever into each tank before adding water. Anyone have experience with running water through carbon filters of the type available from HomeDepot or elsewhere?
Matt
I have a step by step on how to put together an auto water change system in the last Biotope (I think) that we published. If someone could scan it and put it online, I'd be happy to answer questions.
The way I built mine, adding water and tank water out are separate systems...so there's nothing keeping me (you) from manually siphoning tanks 1/3 or whatever and then adding water (dripping) to all of them simultaneously (to fill). Drains on each tank ensure that I don't overfill.
My systems have not automated the dechlor process. I just drip a bit of Prime or whatever into each tank before adding water. Anyone have experience with running water through carbon filters of the type available from HomeDepot or elsewhere?
Matt
danger_chicken
Swim Fishy Swim!
Last year Baltimore started adding chloramine to the water. I followed the advise of some people on MFK that were using a two stage carbon block from The Filter Guys. I bought standard 10" housings (3) at home depot and the carbon blocks and 1 micron filter from here:
http://www.thefilterguys.biz/chloramine_filters.htm
$34.00 - CARBON BLOCK CHLORAMINE PACKAGE
- 1 POLY SEDIMENT 1 MICRON FILTER
- 1 CHLORAMINE MASTER NH2CL STAGE 2 CARBON BLOCK
- 1 CHLORAMINE MASTER NH2CL STAGE 3 CARBON BLOCK
* there is one draw back and that's the carbon reduces the chloramine to ammonia, so you have to have strong bio filtration since you are essentailly creating an ammonia drip. My planted tank is kicking as are the pothos hanging off the the rest of my tanks (noticable difference in pothos growth/health since adding these carbon blocks).
Tony
Alligator Snapping Turtle/Past Pres
Awesome. Thanks for the tips, Mike. How many tanks are you dripping to? Is the correct order of operation:
Source -> solenoid -> pressure reducer -> filtration -> main branch?
I guess I'm not sure of the pressure reducer and solenoid order. Does it matter?
Do your have your main line set up in a loop with lines coming off of it (like you would for air)? I would think a closed loop is necessary to equalize pressure.
Also, where did you get your lines and other parts? Depot or online?
Sorry for all the questions... seen a lot of DIY threads on MFK and elsewhere for single/double tank water changers or dosing into a sump on a central system. Not a big fan of central systems....
Got any new pics of the multi-tank setup?
Last edited:
Tony
Alligator Snapping Turtle/Past Pres
Filter Housings/Connection size?
I was also wondering how the reduced pressure/flow coming from the pressure reducer and output of the filter, through a 1/4" hose is capable of supporting 20 drip emitters?
Flow from my RO/DI used to be painfully slow. I guess that water flows much more quickly through the 1micron and carbon blocks?
So should you be using a larger diameter hose to/from the filters (and put the pressure reducer after the filter) to up the flow? This would affect which of these housings to pick...
Lowe's house deal (with standard garden-hose-size connections)
http://www.lowes.com/pd_89374-59019-WHKF-DWH_4294822071+4294821330_4294937087_?productId=1201339&Ns=p_product_prd_lis_ord_nbr|0||p_product_quantity_sold|1&pl=1¤tURL=%2Fpl_Complete%2Bsystem_4294822071%2B4294821330_4294937087_%3FNs%3Dp_product_prd_lis_ord_nbr|0||p_product_quantity_sold|1&facetInfo=Complete%20system#BVRRWidgetID
Or one of these with the 1/4" tubing?
http://www.thefilterguys.biz/housings.htm
If you're putting all three inline, is there an easy way to save some money and connect three of them without using the pressure fittings?
I was also wondering how the reduced pressure/flow coming from the pressure reducer and output of the filter, through a 1/4" hose is capable of supporting 20 drip emitters?
Flow from my RO/DI used to be painfully slow. I guess that water flows much more quickly through the 1micron and carbon blocks?
So should you be using a larger diameter hose to/from the filters (and put the pressure reducer after the filter) to up the flow? This would affect which of these housings to pick...
Lowe's house deal (with standard garden-hose-size connections)
http://www.lowes.com/pd_89374-59019-WHKF-DWH_4294822071+4294821330_4294937087_?productId=1201339&Ns=p_product_prd_lis_ord_nbr|0||p_product_quantity_sold|1&pl=1¤tURL=%2Fpl_Complete%2Bsystem_4294822071%2B4294821330_4294937087_%3FNs%3Dp_product_prd_lis_ord_nbr|0||p_product_quantity_sold|1&facetInfo=Complete%20system#BVRRWidgetID
Or one of these with the 1/4" tubing?
http://www.thefilterguys.biz/housings.htm
If you're putting all three inline, is there an easy way to save some money and connect three of them without using the pressure fittings?
danger_chicken
Swim Fishy Swim!
I used housings with 3/4" fittings. The water line was installed for the orginal automatic water changer; so when I changed over to drip I just ran with what I had. 1/4" tubing has a flow rate of 30gph so you could use that if you'll be dripping less. If you can do 1/4" tubing it will probably be much easier to install and hide.
http://www.homedepot.com/GE/h_d1/N-...splay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053
The system is constant drip so no solinod. There is a mixing valve inline to regulate the temp of the drip water. I had drip irrigation pressure regulators but they leaked within a year. Right now I control the pressure by closing a ball valve most of the way, not great but better than nothing. I was looking at a brass regulator but the ones at Home Depot have bad reviews
Eventaully I'll get one like this and be done with it.
I have the drip on 14 tanks. I didn't have filters when I had the regulators and have been wondering the same thing about placement. I ran the 3/4" main line around the room's along the base board and painted them the same color as the wall. At the tanks there are 1/4" manifolds. Use the drip irrigation 1/4" tubing NOT airline. If you have to use airline be sure to clap it to the water source or it will blow off; it's just not ridged enough to hold on to the barbs.
I bought some of the stuff here and the rest at a local garden center.
http://www.dripirrigation.com/index.php?cPath=36
The water lines are not looped; I've extended it a few times so I have several branches that are terminated at the ends.
http://www.homedepot.com/GE/h_d1/N-...splay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053
The system is constant drip so no solinod. There is a mixing valve inline to regulate the temp of the drip water. I had drip irrigation pressure regulators but they leaked within a year. Right now I control the pressure by closing a ball valve most of the way, not great but better than nothing. I was looking at a brass regulator but the ones at Home Depot have bad reviews
I have the drip on 14 tanks. I didn't have filters when I had the regulators and have been wondering the same thing about placement. I ran the 3/4" main line around the room's along the base board and painted them the same color as the wall. At the tanks there are 1/4" manifolds. Use the drip irrigation 1/4" tubing NOT airline. If you have to use airline be sure to clap it to the water source or it will blow off; it's just not ridged enough to hold on to the barbs.
I bought some of the stuff here and the rest at a local garden center.
http://www.dripirrigation.com/index.php?cPath=36
The water lines are not looped; I've extended it a few times so I have several branches that are terminated at the ends.
YSS
Members
I am seriously considering building a automatic drip water change system for my 265G tank. I could continue to use this thread or start a new one. Not sure if I want to include an RO system in it or not. If I used an RO system, do I need to worry about removing bad stuff (i.e. chloromine) from the water?
Tony, did you end up building one?
Tony, did you end up building one?
