This is what I do.
Does it mean anything that I had just fed the guys a new food? Omega sinking pellets. When I got it the top had a layer of dust on it from a local pet store but it was perfectly sealed.
This is what I do.
Does it mean anything that I had just fed the guys a new food? Omega sinking pellets. When I got it the top had a layer of dust on it from a local pet store but it was perfectly sealed.
frkyltn
Members
Originally Posted by hollyfish2000
Also, just curious, why do you turn your filters off when you do a water change? I never do, unless I'm going to clean a filter, which I certainly don't do on every water change.
It has just been a habit and they stop pumping when the level gets too low for them. Always thought it was best.
if you have canisters the intake valves are usually way down in the tank(longer than HOB filters)..I wouldn't change out that much water on weekly water changes and you should be able to keep them running.
Andrewtfw
Global Moderators
Not to derail, but I always unplug my filters when changing water. I change 50-75% at a time, which places the water line far below the filter return.
Regarding the OP, is it possible there was ammonia present but the ph prior to the change was acidic? After the change, the raised ph would make ammonia toxic.
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Regarding the OP, is it possible there was ammonia present but the ph prior to the change was acidic? After the change, the raised ph would make ammonia toxic.
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Becca
Members
Same here. We've had multiple ptolonged power outages and only clean our canisyers a few times a year. Never had an issue in 10 plus years of udi g characters.
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neut
Members
+1 To the above couple of posts. We get power outages all the time where I live. I've been through many of them-- from several hours to overnight, and several longer than that. Unless the ambient temperature is high, like the room is 90 degrees or something, canisters normally handle this with little problem ime. There are a lot of myths in the hobby about the fragility of beneficial bacteria-- see link
@Ryan. My first assumption is you know what you're doing and the problem is not some mistake you made. Two possibilities that come to my mind are: 1) water treatment plant in your area had problems and messed up the water-- happened to me 20 some years ago, wiped out 90% of my fish in 3 tanks, confirmed by calling the water board that they had a water chemistry problem... 2) somehow a toxin got into the tank, whether something sprayed in the room, etc-- happened to a friend of mine, also 20 years ago-- someone else in the house had sprayed an air freshener in the room (or something of that nature, 20 years ago, don't remember exactly what it was) and he came home to a mostly dead tank.
@Ryan. My first assumption is you know what you're doing and the problem is not some mistake you made. Two possibilities that come to my mind are: 1) water treatment plant in your area had problems and messed up the water-- happened to me 20 some years ago, wiped out 90% of my fish in 3 tanks, confirmed by calling the water board that they had a water chemistry problem... 2) somehow a toxin got into the tank, whether something sprayed in the room, etc-- happened to a friend of mine, also 20 years ago-- someone else in the house had sprayed an air freshener in the room (or something of that nature, 20 years ago, don't remember exactly what it was) and he came home to a mostly dead tank.
mchambers
Former CCA member
Yup
+1. I agree that Ryan didn't do anything wrong. It's just one of the weird, inexplicable tank wipeouts that occur from time to time, like Hollyfish described earlier in the thread. For another example, see here:
http://www.capitalcichlids.org/forums/showthread.php?t=16058&highlight=change
+1. I agree that Ryan didn't do anything wrong. It's just one of the weird, inexplicable tank wipeouts that occur from time to time, like Hollyfish described earlier in the thread. For another example, see here:
http://www.capitalcichlids.org/forums/showthread.php?t=16058&highlight=change
b considine
a dude playing a dude disguised as another dude
That link is to my disaster. Never did figure out what happened. Never did completely tear the tank down or "sterilize" it.
Since then, I've goten rid of all but one ancistrus and it is currently loaded with more corys of various sorts, along with the last few of my melon barbs. Tank now runs on a single large poret block filter. Sadly, I broke my Eheim 2213, which had been running issue-free since the mid/late 80s.
Moral of the story: Don't let this disaster get you down. Remain vigilant in your water change. Try again.
Blaise
Since then, I've goten rid of all but one ancistrus and it is currently loaded with more corys of various sorts, along with the last few of my melon barbs. Tank now runs on a single large poret block filter. Sadly, I broke my Eheim 2213, which had been running issue-free since the mid/late 80s.
Moral of the story: Don't let this disaster get you down. Remain vigilant in your water change. Try again.
Blaise
Rasta Fish
CCA Members
That's sucks
Happen to me before, heater malfunction
look at it this way it gives you room to start another setup
Happen to me before, heater malfunction
look at it this way it gives you room to start another setup
CichlidAddict
Members
Every mysterious die off has a reason, except that it has not been identified. I can recall 4 die off incidents in my 40 year of fish keeping First, when I lived in Florida, my water company switched from chlorine treatment to chloramine. I didn't put enough dechlor and the fish died off in front of me before filling up to the top. A second time I placed an ornamental silver shining rock I bought from a rock shop on a trip. The fish slowly died off in days apparently from heavy metals leaking off the rock. The third time I glued an ornament onto a rock with silicone. I was careless not to soak the the cured silicone in water overnight before placing in the tank, thinking that a small amount of silicone in a big tank won't matter. It didn't wipe out all the fish, but selectively my entire colony of Tang compressiseps. The forth time I decorated my tank with plastic ornaments I bought from mail order, the type made for fish tank. All my small Tangs started to die off in days, but my bigger Malawian or CA/SA were unharmed. I suspect the plasterizer in the ornaments did it, because after I removed them, the die off stopped. In all 4 incidents, the killer was toxin in the water.
I can bear witness that a mis managed canister can release toxin. My broker friend has a small 20 gal tank in his office filtered by an oversized canister. He told me he only cleaned it once to twice a year. But the oversized canister is so powerful that it sucks in fish food so he had to turn it off temporarily during feeding. One time he forgot to turn it back on over night. The fish were fine the next day without any water circulation. But a couple hours after turning teh canister back on, all the fish were dead. He opened up the canister and discovered strong sulfide smell and a lot of trapped food.
Yes, BB are resilient and don't die off easily and this is why companies are selling BB in closed cans. But in the absent of oxygen, the BB are no longer beneficial and stop converting ammonia to nitrate. Instead, the same bacteria can switch to anaerobic mode and digest organic matter by stripping oxygen off nitrate and sulfate turning them into toxic nitrite and sulfide. If the trapped waste in the canister is mostly fish poop, it's no harm because fish poop has no food value. But if the trapped waste contains substantial left over food, it's a time bomb.
I can bear witness that a mis managed canister can release toxin. My broker friend has a small 20 gal tank in his office filtered by an oversized canister. He told me he only cleaned it once to twice a year. But the oversized canister is so powerful that it sucks in fish food so he had to turn it off temporarily during feeding. One time he forgot to turn it back on over night. The fish were fine the next day without any water circulation. But a couple hours after turning teh canister back on, all the fish were dead. He opened up the canister and discovered strong sulfide smell and a lot of trapped food.
Yes, BB are resilient and don't die off easily and this is why companies are selling BB in closed cans. But in the absent of oxygen, the BB are no longer beneficial and stop converting ammonia to nitrate. Instead, the same bacteria can switch to anaerobic mode and digest organic matter by stripping oxygen off nitrate and sulfate turning them into toxic nitrite and sulfide. If the trapped waste in the canister is mostly fish poop, it's no harm because fish poop has no food value. But if the trapped waste contains substantial left over food, it's a time bomb.
frkyltn
Members
Good info, gracias!:sign0092:
Wow, thanks for all the information everyone. It feels good I am sadly not alone in this situation. But still not sure if I'll continue. Loosiing all those large fish really sucks especially because it took so long to get 95% of what I wanted. I have a 55 with about 18 fish for grow out. And I'm scared to even change the water. I will call the water company and see if I can get any info like one person recommend.
Again thanks everyone. Great group here with tons of support.
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Again thanks everyone. Great group here with tons of support.
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Jmty
Members
who would you believed ?personal experiences are the best teacher , still learning why i kill.
madcobra216
Members
Sorry to hear that Jose. I know its tough a tough lost. Take a deep breath, & lets do this all over again. I'm willing to donate some juvies to you if you decide to start over. Just PM me. Hang in there.
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neut
Members
No argument, but that seems pretty obvious and it's not the same thing as whether a healthy filter can handle being shut off for a few hours. I would think if you have a filter sucking in copious amounts of food every time you feed you have an obvious problem with a choice of obvious solutions. If you have a canister that's neglected enough to produce hydrogen sulfide you'd better reconsider your fishkeeping habits. It takes special conditions and a different type of bacteria to produce hydrogen sulfide. A healthy canister fostering normal nitrifying bacteria won't normally produce hydrogen sulfide after a few hours shut-off. Link
As far as turning filters off during water changes-- sure, you want to remember to turn them back on, but there's nothing wrong with it, a lot of people do it. In fact, depending how your equipment is set up, some would recommend it for electrical safety reasons.
No reason in the world Omega One in itself should kill your fish. As far as dust, people complain about that with a lot of different pellets, including NLS.
As far as tank disasters, I agree with some of the other comments. If you keep fish long enough, sooner or later something will probably happen. Not fun when it happens, but it doesn't have to kill your hobby, especially if it's something you enjoy.
Last edited:
CichlidAddict
Members
Fish are messy eater and will always generate residual food dust that get sucked into the filter. How healthy the canister is depends on the loading rate of residual food, how fast it is digested, and how often the canister is cleaned.
Sulfide is not the only toxin of concern, but an indicator of anoxic condition. Ammonia and nitrite are also produced under anoxic condition and nitrite is more dangerous because it has no smell and is rarely tested.
I am not saying that canister is the problem, but the lack of maintenance is the problem. I hear people say that canister is great because it only needs to be cleaned once a year.
Sulfide is not the only toxin of concern, but an indicator of anoxic condition. Ammonia and nitrite are also produced under anoxic condition and nitrite is more dangerous because it has no smell and is rarely tested.
I am not saying that canister is the problem, but the lack of maintenance is the problem. I hear people say that canister is great because it only needs to be cleaned once a year.
dogofwar
CCA Members
I'm glad that the OP isn't going to give up the ghost on fishkeeping after a set back like this.
While we may never know the exact cause of why 90% of the fish in the tank died overnight, it doesn't mean that it was a spontaneous, inexplicable occurrence. African cichlids are tough fish that can withstand a lot. A tank full of them don't die overnight for no reason.
The simplest explanation has something to do with the water change or something else added to the tank. The weird thing is that the fish seemed OK a couple of hours after the water change but somehow died over the next few hours. Not enough aeration on the tank after the water change? Did the fish die only after you turned the filters back on (after you checked on the fish a couple of hours after the water change)?
As much as I don't like canister filters - their design ensures that uneaten food and other waste accumulate and rot inside the filter...and often for months, as they are a PITA to clean - it's hard to imagine that this alone was the cause. But who knows. I can imagine a scenario in which a really nasty canister filter, which has been turned off for some time becomes anaerobic and spews out hydrigen sulfide (rotten egg smell) when it's turned back on....and hydrogen sulfide will absolutely kill fish (in a tank or in nature).
The good news: Restocking the tank will be easy with all of the fish and group buys our club holds.
Best wishes,
Matt
While we may never know the exact cause of why 90% of the fish in the tank died overnight, it doesn't mean that it was a spontaneous, inexplicable occurrence. African cichlids are tough fish that can withstand a lot. A tank full of them don't die overnight for no reason.
The simplest explanation has something to do with the water change or something else added to the tank. The weird thing is that the fish seemed OK a couple of hours after the water change but somehow died over the next few hours. Not enough aeration on the tank after the water change? Did the fish die only after you turned the filters back on (after you checked on the fish a couple of hours after the water change)?
As much as I don't like canister filters - their design ensures that uneaten food and other waste accumulate and rot inside the filter...and often for months, as they are a PITA to clean - it's hard to imagine that this alone was the cause. But who knows. I can imagine a scenario in which a really nasty canister filter, which has been turned off for some time becomes anaerobic and spews out hydrigen sulfide (rotten egg smell) when it's turned back on....and hydrogen sulfide will absolutely kill fish (in a tank or in nature).
The good news: Restocking the tank will be easy with all of the fish and group buys our club holds.
Best wishes,
Matt
festaedan
potamotrygon fan
You are deffenitelly are not alone
I've delt with this aswell. http://www.capitalcichlids.org/forums/showthread.php?t=19732&highlight=died
I know how you feel and I would defenitely call the water company. I think your local water company might've changed something and your fish might've not reacted well to it. I've posted a link to what I did when I had an extremely devistating full tank wipe last year
The Three Amigo
Members
Sorry about your lost
Hang in there Cane, Im still new to the hobby (5 tanks currently running) been in the hobby for about 1 year. About a month ago I had a heater malfunction in my 20 gallon OB tank (housing 4 cichlids w/ 1 holding). They may not have been show fish but they were my personal show fish.
My point being, there will always be set backs but you did the right thing by posting on the forum. There are a lot of knowledge folks in this club that are always willing to help and believe it or not, your post reminded all of us that at any time something can happen. Like a few folks on here said, take a time out from your show tank, concentrate on your current tanks and jump back into your show tank when you are ready.....
Hang in there Cane, Im still new to the hobby (5 tanks currently running) been in the hobby for about 1 year. About a month ago I had a heater malfunction in my 20 gallon OB tank (housing 4 cichlids w/ 1 holding). They may not have been show fish but they were my personal show fish.
My point being, there will always be set backs but you did the right thing by posting on the forum. There are a lot of knowledge folks in this club that are always willing to help and believe it or not, your post reminded all of us that at any time something can happen. Like a few folks on here said, take a time out from your show tank, concentrate on your current tanks and jump back into your show tank when you are ready.....
