Wtf! lol

Localzoo

Board of Directors
Lol got 2 jewels from Karen at the last meeting and I Haven't even had them for a week and they already spawned lol
Man these guy are fast
What did you feed them? Lol!
Thank you they are beautiful fish
here is one of the ladies depositing eggs


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dogofwar

CCA Members
It's really, really hard to definitively ID Hemichromis species, especially without provenance to the wild.

Matt
 

chriscoli

Administrator
It's really, really hard to definitively ID Hemichromis species, especially without provenance to the wild.

Matt


good to know...which makes it especially important to remember what kind you bought and not guess at it.

I've got H. gutattus breeding right now, and H. lifalili growing out from the Aquafest auction (Thanks, George!).
 

dogofwar

CCA Members
Anton Lamboj did an awesome presentation on Hemichromis at ACA a couple of years ago. I wouldn't have too much faith in labeling, either, unfortunately...

Hmmmm....Where could we have him fit an abridged version of his Hemichromis presentation in at AquaMania? - For a variety of reasons, my memory of his presentation is spotty :rolleyes: I need a refresher!

Matt

good to know...which makes it especially important to remember what kind you bought and not guess at it.

I've got H. gutattus breeding right now, and H. lifalili growing out from the Aquafest auction (Thanks, George!).
 

dogofwar

CCA Members
From CRC (http://www.cichlidae.com/gallery/species.php?id=411):

Aquaristics: It is not known (and perhaps impossible to determine) when Hemichromis lifalili was first introduced, for it was and is still subject to many misidentifications. In regards to the name, it is possibly the most popular Hemichromis species in the hobby, but these ‘aquarium-lifalilis‘ are a mix of several wild and domesticated forms which are most likely H. guttatus.

A few years ago, a species from the Lower Congo appeared in the hobby (both North America and Europe) which is referred to as Hemichromis sp. ‚Moanda‘. It corresponds well to Loiselle‘s 1979 description (except for life color data), and indeed he listed specimens from Moanda among the additional material identified as Hemichromis lifalili. These beautiful fishes have attained a wide, though scattered distribution in the hobby, for they are rather peaceful and easily bred.


Conservation: Hemichromis lifalili is evaluated by the international union for the conservation of nature in the iucn red list of threatened species as (LC) least concern (2010).


Comments: As noted above, Hemichromis lifalili was often misidentified. Loiselle (1979, 1992) presented a monochrome photo of a live fish said to be collected near Kinshasa (Pool Malebo according to the latter work). This fish seems to belong to the H. guttatus/H. letourneuxi complex. Indeed, Loiselle considered Hemichromis lifalili most closely related to H. letourneuxi based on the lower pharyngeal dentition. However, the fish photographed by Loiselle does not correspond to the holotype (as figured in FishBase), which resembles rather H. stellifer. It may be misidentified due to wrong locality data, although it cannot be excluded that a H. guttatus/H. letourneuxi-like species is present in the Congo drainage as well.

Misidentifications in the hobby may have occurred for the same reason, however, much of the confusion is due to aquarist’s disregard of one of the most important results of Loiselle’s 1979 work, i.e. the identification of the then most common species in the hobby as H. guttatus. Instead, it has been referred to under several other names, above all that of Hemichromis lifalili. The “Aquarium-lifalili” is thus probably nothing but a mix of different aquarium strains (including oligomelanotic breeds etc.) and wild-caught forms of H. guttatus. Indeed, it cannot be excluded that other species are involved, since it has long been thought that only one species of Red Jewels would exist - H. bimaculatus. Already Engmann (1909) reported the existence of different ‘forms’.

In more recent years, several Congolese populations have been introduced, which may well correspond to the true Hemichromis lifalili as currently defined. These seem to be more closely related to H. stellifer and H. sp. ‘Gabon’. One has apparently been reported first by Freyhof (1995) as H. sp. ‘Bangui’, it is not to be confused with the fish later referred to under this provisional name. It resembles H. sp. ‘Gabon’ except for having a red iris, a red spot before the opercular blotch, the red body coloration restricted to the lower parts and a somewhat more convex head profile. It has apparently not attained any considerable popularity in the hobby. The same is true for a more intensely colored form of unknown origin, figured by Werner (2003) and Lamboj (2004) as a possible color variant of or an unidentified species related to H. stellifer, respectively. The fish named H. sp. ‘Moanda’, on the other hand, has received more attention by the aquarists. It is said to come from the Lower Congo and is easily recognized by the yellow coloration of the lower parts of head and body, which is sharply defined against the red flanks and upper parts. A similarly colored fish from Boma (Lower Congo) was already described by Boulenger (1901) from a watercolor sketch by the collector, Delhez. H. sp. ‘Moanda’ and the other forms discussed in this paragraph are certainly referable to Hemichromis lifalili as currently understood. Unfortunately, however, the life colors of the population from the type locality are not known, and it cannot be excluded that several species are hidden under the name Hemichromis lifalili.
 

chriscoli

Administrator
I really enjoyed Anton's talk, but from a practical perspective what are you suggesting that those of us with Hemichromis do? Get rid of them? We have a responsability to maintain their nomenclature as we received them, but it doesn't mean we shouldn't keep them. These are fantastic fish!
 

dogofwar

CCA Members
More:

Hemichromis bimaculatus


Comments: Even when the species name is used very often in scientific and aquarium literature, it is maybe one of the rarest species of the genus in the hobby. The reason is that an absolutely proper definition, regarding to the holotype, is not possible, as the condition of the type specimen does not allows it. Also, the type locality for is not clearly established, and just "West Africa" is given. So, as most of the Jewel Cichlids are very similar in morphology, the correct identification is difficult. Possibly the specimens from Liberia, once described as H. fugax, are in fact this species, it is nowadays generally accepted that H. fugax is a synonym for Hemichromis bimaculatus. A complicated situation for a common name, still to be cleared up.

And Hemichromis guttatus

Comments: This is the most common species in the hobby, often distributed with wrong names. There is some confusion about its distribution, which is still to be known exactly. It seems that this species is the most common of the genus in West Africa, but does not occur from the southern part of Cameroon down to the south of the continent. Also this species has unfortunately been spread by humans in regions far outside its natural range, e.g., populations are found in México and Florida, also in thermal springs in Austria and in Hungaria, and maybe in other countries too.


I think someone was selling some collected in Florida as "Hemichromis letourneuxi," which they may or may not be :)


Please forgive my indulgence in cutting and pasting from the Cichlid Room Companion! I'd encourage everyone to subscribe and support it: http://www.cichlidae.com/docs/membership.php


Matt
 

dogofwar

CCA Members
I agree - I'd have Anton look at them and make his best guess.

They're one of the classic cichlids that everyone should keep and breed :)

Matt

I really enjoyed Anton's talk, but from a practical perspective what are you suggesting that those of us with Hemichromis do? Get rid of them? We have a responsability to maintain their nomenclature as we received them, but it doesn't mean we shouldn't keep them. These are fantastic fish!
 

chriscoli

Administrator
I agree - I'd have Anton look at them and make his best guess.

They're one of the classic cichlids that everyone should keep and breed :)

Matt


And yet, you just cast doubt on what we're all really keeping. What do you suggest we do in all real practicality? Seems a bit hasty to swoop in and declare "your fish is wrong". Are you suggesting that unless we have WC or F1 fish, we shouldn't be breeding Hemichromis?

What started as a congratulatory thread has ended up blackening the ID of all of our Hemichromis. Yes, the Hemichromis have issues....all of us who were at Anton's talk are aware of that, but this thread sure doesn't seem the appropriate place to discuss it.
 

dogofwar

CCA Members
I'm certainly not saying that no one should breed Hemichromis.

All I'm saying is that positively ID'ing Hemichromis is a crapshoot... and that unless fish have collection locations / provenance (whether wild or F23), chances are they're mis-labeled or nearly impossible to positively identify.

(As Anton wrote), Even when the species name is used very often in scientific and aquarium literature, Hemichromis bimaculatus is maybe one of the rarest species of the genus in the hobby.

So chances are the fish aren't H. bimaculatus.

Just like "convicts" or "Texas cichlids" or lots of fish for that matter, it's best to call red jewels, red jewels vs. someone guessing on a scientific name, passing it on, etc.

I keep a pair of pink convicts because I like them, whether I know the true taxonomic identity of them or not :)

My apologies if I offended anyone - certainly wasn't my intention!

Matt
 

Localzoo

Board of Directors
It's really, really hard to definitively ID Hemichromis species, especially without provenance to the wild.

Matt

Arrrrrgghhh I hate you guys!
lol not really now I'm doubting everything, everyone and even my fish. My fish!
But I have two unidentified...
2 bimaculatus got from some person in va
And then I thought ok I need a lady for theses guys (I say guys bc my guess after venting they all looked the same) so posted a wtb add here for females then got 2 more.
Now I'm confused
ps they all looked more blueish red even the ladies until they all saw each other then the iris spots started disappearing then got brighter red. After the spawn they all started to go back to normal

Any how here is a pick of one after

Thank you for the info

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