Use Caution with Water Conditioners

J

Jay

CCA Members
Recently I learned a hard lesson that I am passing on here in hope that ours will learn from my mistake.

I used Ultimate (Liquid) until they came out with New Pond. New Pond is a powder version of Ultimate that is stronger, allowing me to use less. All of the sudden around December Ultimate and New Pond supplies ran out. I started using ClorAm-X with is the main ingredient in New Pond instead of New Pond until New Pond became available again. I was using ClorAm-X at the same rate as New Pond. What I did not realize was that ClorAm-X is about two times stronger than New Pond. As a result I was causing pH crashes and lost some fish in bags, particularly at Aqua Mania.

Let this be a warning to all. Using too much deliminator can cause pH crashes and fish death.

If you use Prime, be very careful to pre-mix it with water first. Prime is a very good product; but, because it is very strong, it should not be added directly to fish water or overdosed. Over do it or add it directly to your tanks and you are likely to kill fish. It is also difficult to ship using this product because a few drops in a small bag can be too much.

Thus is why I was using ClorAm-X instead of go to Prime and why I use New Pond instead of Prime. Both ClorAm-X and Prime can be added to fish water as long as you fill up the tanks in a short time after adding these water conditioners. Prime can not. When I clean my tanks, I pump 75 to 90% of the water out first, then add conditioner before refilling the tanks using my drip to drain water system.

Do not make the same mistake I did. Be care. I set up a home made chart for using both of these conditioners with my tanks. I suggest doing a chart to be safe.

Jay
 
MDB_fish_newbie

MDB_fish_newbie

Members
i use safe witch is the stronger powder version of prime. to dose the whole 75g tank i only use 1\16-1\8th on a teaspoon. But since i got it ive just added it directly to the tank after removing 50-75% of the water then refill the tank from the sink via python hose. Are you suggesting I dissolve the dose of water treatment in a bowl of water first ?
 
Termato

Termato

Board of Directors
Have you had any problems with safe witch? I'll be running out of prime in the next 5-6 months so I may consider it.

I've been dosing prime directly into the tank for quite some time. I don't do it often, but only when I forget to put it into the bucket. I'll make it a point to dilute it in water before adding it from now on. Good suggestions and sorry about your fish loss :(
 
CichlidAddict

CichlidAddict

Members
As a result I was causing pH crashes and lost some fish in bags, particularly at Aqua Mania.

Let this be a warning to all. Using too much deliminator can cause pH crashes and fish death. [\quote]

Jay, can you explain how you lost fish in bags.

My understanding is that dechlor will not change the pH, but can deplete oxygen if you over dose it. The pH crash you observed may not have anything to do with dechlor, but more likely caused by mixing new water with old bag water. Old bag water tends to be acidic due to saturation with CO2, which renders NH3 less toxic. Mixing new water with old bag water raises the pH rendering NH3 more toxic. I have lost fish quickly by adding new water to old bag water.
Click to expand...
 
mchambers

mchambers

Former CCA member
I've used Seachem Safe for years without problem. I usually just put it directly in the tank before I add water. The only exception is when I add water to smaller tanks, like tanks smaller than 20 gallons.

For small tanks, I usually dissolve a dose of Safe for a total of 30 gallons in a container of water, and then pour the water in three separate 10 gallon tanks. I do that not out of concerns about the "strength" of Safe, whatever that means, but because it makes measuring easier.

I haven't seen any effect on pH. My impression has been that overdosing any dechlorinator creates the risk of reducing oxygen levels, not affecting pH.
 
Reed

Reed

Very Fishe
I have been using Safe for years with no problem. If you add too much it will deplete the oxygen. I have figured out that when changing my water I use a Dash, Pinch and Smidgen measuring spoon.
I do ~ 20% change for a 20G I use a Smidgen, 29G use a Pinch and 75 G use Dash. I put the measured amount in a plastic cup and when I fill i put the safe in. Have not had any problems since I learned
 
JLW

JLW

CCA Members
The dechlorination process is acidic, as is the breakdown of the sodium thiosulphate. Both can marginally reduce pH. They can definitely work to reduce oxygen, as well. Dechlor will also bind with ammonia and nitrite, and a lot of people use a tiny bit in a fish bag to help ease stress on the fish. Put in too much, though, and ...
 
MDB_fish_newbie

MDB_fish_newbie

Members
JLW said:
The dechlorination process is acidic, as is the breakdown of the sodium thiosulphate. Both can marginally reduce pH. They can definitely work to reduce oxygen, as well. Dechlor will also bind with ammonia and nitrite, and a lot of people use a tiny bit in a fish bag to help ease stress on the fish. Put in too much, though, and ...
Click to expand...

Science :party0007:
 
D

dhavalsp

Members
quick question, where do you go to check what is added in the local water? which website? also it will be even better if someone knows water in rockville (20852) has chloramine....the dose for prime is different for chlorine vs chlorine and chloramine...and i always add more...thinking that more will not harm...
 
CichlidAddict

CichlidAddict

Members
JLW said:
The dechlorination process is acidic, as is the breakdown of the sodium thiosulphate. Both can marginally reduce pH. They can definitely work to reduce oxygen, as well. Dechlor will also bind with ammonia and nitrite, and a lot of people use a tiny bit in a fish bag to help ease stress on the fish. Put in too much, though, and ...
Click to expand...

It's not acid forming, just alkalinity reduction. Here is the reaction equation from Wikapedia. There is no acid forming compounds on the right side, just neutralization of alkaline bleach compounds on the left. Bleach is made from sodium hydroxide and chlorine and has a pure product pH of 12 and above. Adding thiosulfate will not turn neutral pH water to acidic, just make it less alkaline if the water starts out alkaline.

Thiosulfate reduces the hypochlorite (active ingredient in bleach) and in so doing becomes oxidized to sulfate. The complete reaction is:
4 NaClO + Na2S2O3 + 2 NaOH → 4 NaCl + 2 Na2SO4 + H2O
 
Pat Kelly

Pat Kelly

CCA Member
I premix my safe into prime bottles every 3 months.
I know, people say you cant do that.

Been doing it for 3 years now. I figure its not as strong when its premixed with water.

If I am doing a 90% on the 150 I put 1 cap when I start filling, then add the others as it fills up.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top