Uruguay Trip 2014 - Proactive Ich Treatment Plan

dogofwar

dogofwar

CCA Members
I'm headed back to Uruguay in early Feb 2014 and plan to bring back my full quota of fish (Gymnogeos, chanchitos, pikes, livebearers, cories, plecos, characins, oddballs).

Uruguayan fish tend to be pretty hardy but collecting, transporting, shipping and acclimation can be pretty stressful on them. They come back in styros in my luggage...after being in buckets with airstones in a trailer for a few days (albeit with at least twice daily 100% water changes)...

I've had massive ich outbreaks after each trip, including last trip when a run-away heater boiled a whole tank of fish and (I think) use of ich meds did in some catfish and tetras. These are cool water fish, so more sensitive to higher temps.

The good news is that after initial losses, I still have most of the fish I collected last trip (over 2 years later). Minimal losses over the two years have been due to aggression, jumping (a couple pikes a livebearers) and internal parasites (a couple Gymnogeos).

This year, I want to have a strategy and game plan before I go.

Here's the plan (please provide feedback / thoughts based on your experience).

  • I will, of course, quarantine everything in their own tanks. A handful of PFS and a few PVC pipes.
  • I plan to have a seasoned sponge filter (currently bubbling in one of my 150gs) and a box filter in each quarantine tank.
  • Each tank will have a heater, pre-tested and set at 70F for arrival (they're COLD by the time they get home) and increase the temp to 76F the first day and 80F for the second day. I'll plan to increase to 85 the third day for any tanks exhibiting ich symptoms.
  • I'm going to add 2 tsp / 5 gallons to each tank initially and bump it up 1 tsp/gallon each day after return until it gets to 1 tsp/gallon (or 5 tsp/5 gal).
  • I'm going to add Melafix at 1/2 dose to each tank on day 1
  • I've got my UV sterilizer on standby for any tank that exhibits symptoms
  • I'm going to sanitize my nets in Net Soak between tanks. It's really easy to spread ich between tanks!

Anyone have thoughts or experience to share, especially with newly imported and/or cool water fish?

I'm intentionally staying away from medicines other than salt and melafix. I tried the herbal ich medication (Ich Attack, I think) last trip and it was pretty much useless...

Matt
 
chriscoli

chriscoli

Administrator
I have not had any luck with the herbal Ich medications either (I tried Herbtana).

Your plan sounds like a good balance between being proactive, yet waiting till there's evidence of a problem to pull out the big guns.

Are you worried about any other parasites other than Ich?
 
cichlidaddicted

cichlidaddicted

Members
Sounds very good! for me early detection is always key so observation seems to be one of the best tools for acclimating fish to new environments after traveling long distances. Never had the experience of transporting wild caught fish and introducing them to an aquarium. I imagine its very stressful (for human and fish) during transport and tricky for the first few weeks. I have heard good things about prazipro and paraguard for eliminating any unseen issues with new and stressed fish. Good luck I'm very curious how it works out so keep us posted.

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dogofwar

dogofwar

CCA Members
Thanks Christine!

Observation is key - sometimes it's tough to tell whether fish are freaked out or exhibiting the first signs of ich.

Other than a few fish with internal parasites (sunken bellies that never get full), I've not experienced other harmful parasites.

I've had really good success feeding nearly all freshly collected Uruguayan fish prepared foods (flakes and pellets) - even pikes.

I think I'm going to give them a good week of feeding with Ken's Premium Metro and Garlic flakes. I got a bag recently and unlike any other medicated food I've ever tried, everything devoured it.

Matt

chriscoli said:
I have not had any luck with the herbal Ich medications either (I tried Herbtana).

Your plan sounds like a good balance between being proactive, yet waiting till there's evidence of a problem to pull out the big guns.

Are you worried about any other parasites other than Ich?
Click to expand...
 
Localzoo

Localzoo

Board of Directors
Hey Matt,
I'm not familiar with import or export of fish but a few questions.

What water are you using to change the water?

Is it possible to catch or gather food from the area for the fish?

I have potassium metabisulfite I use for brewing maybe i cab give you a few, maybe it can help kill all the bacteria in you water before you add fish etc...

Things you might know but worth looking at about handling/shipping fish from southern regional aquaculture center
https://srac.tamu.edu/index.cfm/event/getFactSheet/whichfactsheet/218/


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dogofwar

dogofwar

CCA Members
Along the way, we change water with either local tap or well water at the hotel or ranch where we're staying. On the road we use water from a river or stream. We hit it with Prime and/or Amquel as needed...

You don't want the fish to eat. The first night in captivity they tend to poop out whatever is in their guts. It's nasty the next morning. We don't feed them after that in order to keep the water cleaner. Sometimes big fish eat little fish, though. Most fish are fine for many days without food. It makes them easier to feed when you get home, as well - they're hungry!

Ich is a protozoan...so an anti-bacterial wouldn't work. I want there to be plenty of beneficial bacteria in the filters when I return... They'll be going into straight tap water with seeded bio filters.

Thanks for the link!

Matt

Localzoo said:
Hey Matt,
I'm not familiar with import or export of fish but a few questions.

What water are you using to change the water?

Is it possible to catch or gather food from the area for the fish?

I have potassium metabisulfite I use for brewing maybe i cab give you a few, maybe it can help kill all the bacteria in you water before you add fish etc...

Things you might know but worth looking at about handling/shipping fish from southern regional aquaculture center
https://srac.tamu.edu/index.cfm/event/getFactSheet/whichfactsheet/218/


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Click to expand...
 
Localzoo

Localzoo

Board of Directors
The water from different locals have different minerals ph bacteria etc that's why I ask. The killing of bacteria would be done b4 putting your filter media in. Most fish can fend for themselves when it comes to protozoas be it ich or whatever but if the stress of tight quarters and different water chemistries might make them more susceptible along with the bacteria aggravating the situation. Salt helps with the slime coat along maybe feeding them peas or foods soaked in Epsom salt to help clean their systems out.
The Camden tablets help remove chlorine and chloramine from the water it usually makes water safe for people to drink too.
Maybe that might lessen stress and lessen chance of ich...
This is the chemical reaction if your interested
http://www.jimsbeerkit.co.uk/home_brew_faq-water-chlorine.htm


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dogofwar

dogofwar

CCA Members
I think you're misunderstanding: the fish don't come down with ich while we're transporting them in Uruguay... it's when they're back in the US (after a long journey).

We don't filter the water in the buckets we transport them in (in Uruguay) - just aerate it and neutralize the ammonia. Differences in water chemistry are relatively minor and aren't an issue.

Matt
 
Localzoo

Localzoo

Board of Directors
dogofwar said:
I think you're misunderstanding: the fish don't come down with ich while we're transporting them in Uruguay... it's when they're back in the US (after a long journey).

We don't filter the water in the buckets we transport them in (in Uruguay) - just aerate it and neutralize the ammonia. Differences in water chemistry are relatively minor and aren't an issue.

Matt
Click to expand...

Lol yep def miss understood
How long usually until they get ich?
Do you notice it more in any one or other tank or specific size or area of collection?
maybe keeping details on each collection?
Time of day caught, location, time in transport...temp at different airports etc.
I know your prob really detailed maybe looking at things like that might help?

Hope I'm not annoying just trying to toss ideas back to help. I know you have more experience in the hobby. I hope we can help you find the answer.

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Last edited:
blkmjk

blkmjk

Members
I'm considering a trip like this in the not too distant future.

Do you need a permit to export the fish?


Do you check your bags? And carry on the fish? Our vice versa?


What has been your success rate with larger specimen?

Drew
 
dogofwar

dogofwar

CCA Members
Probably another thread :) but:

- The Lacey Act requires a permit from the country of origin and an import / export permit from the US Fish and Wildlife Service.

In the case of Uruguay, Felipe Cantera has worked out the permitting process with his country and arranges for inspection, usually at the airport, to ensure that everything is in order (i.e. following the export limits, not taking other animals, etc.).

When you get to Miami (or another port of entry), you declare that you have fish and you go through the US Fish and Wildlife inspection. According to their rules, import export permits are only required for commercial activities (i.e. not personal use) but it's really up to the judgement of the inspectors that day. So more than a couple / few fish...and you risk that they'll take your fish if you don't have the import / export permit (which is $100). I've got one.

Getting the permit from the source country is sometimes very difficult. Mexico doesn't issue them any more (or only in very specific, usually academic circumstances). I've not collected in places other than Uruguay, so I can't say.

- The process for bringing fish back from Uruguay is in checked bags. Other places (e.g. Peru) has exporters who send the fish back for you. Sending boxes from Uruguay like that would be quite expensive and - other than Felipe, who exports occasionally - there aren't commercial exporters (as there are in, say, Iquitos). Sending fish in checked bags requires really, really good bagging and transporting styros down there. Felipe supplies oxygen, which is a big help.

- Biggest fish I've brought back are probably 4-5" (or 6" pike) fish. The bigger the fish, the harder it is to transport in country and back to the US...and the bigger the chance that it will pop the bags, leak everywhere and get your whole shipment taken or die. Weight is also a premium - big fish require more water (space, weight) than a few smaller ones. We catch lots of big fish...and mostly throw them back. Little fish will be big fish in no time :)

The bottom line is that it's different in every country. We are BLESSED with Felipe in Uruguay. Talk to Ken Davis about finding guides, transportation, lodging, clean water (!), etc. in country in Nicaragua (which I think has also since stopped allowing export) - you're kinda on your own.

Matt

blkmjk said:
I'm considering a trip like this in the not too distant future.

Do you need a permit to export the fish?


Do you check your bags? And carry on the fish? Our vice versa?


What has been your success rate with larger specimen?

Drew
Click to expand...
 
S

skanda

Members
I think I may have got some Wild caught severum juvies from you at an CCA auction from one of your previous trips to Uraguay. Awsome specimens!
 
MHMoro

MHMoro

CCA Members
Internal parasites?

"Other than a few fish with internal parasites (sunken bellies that never get full), I've not experienced other harmful parasites".

Is better to assume that most of them have internal parasites that may cause problems in the future...... I will treat all collected fish for internal parasites.

Manuel
 
dogofwar

dogofwar

CCA Members
Yes - I think it's a good assumption...or at least worth a week of feeding medicated foods!

Matt

MHMoro said:
"Other than a few fish with internal parasites (sunken bellies that never get full), I've not experienced other harmful parasites".

Is better to assume that most of them have internal parasites that may cause problems in the future...... I will treat all collected fish for internal parasites.

Manuel
Click to expand...
 
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