Uh oh -- rainbow cichlid dad ailing

[hollyfish2000]

I'm heartbroken . . . My rainbow pair have been raising babies now for a while -- the fry have been free-swimming for a week. They've been doing a great job. This morning, Dad hid in the back and didn't come out for food -- even bloodworms. Mom was still tending to the babies. I did shoot some bloodworms back to dad and he did eat them, but would not come out from the very back wall of the tank.

What do I do? It's possible for me to catch him, I guess, but it will be disruptive to mom and the babies and even if I do catch him, how do I treat him?

Up until now, he's been great. However, yesterday morning, I did see him carrying a large algae wafer around in his mouth. Could he have bitten off more than he can chew? Or am I feeding too much bloodworms? (which I've been doing over flake to try and keep their strength up, so they're getting them about every other day.)

Also, last night, I did see him briefly come into the foreground by himself twitch a bit and flash and then disappear -- very unusual behavior.

There are no new additions to the tank. I did not check water parameters, but assume they are fine and everyone else is fine.

Separate question -- can Mom take care of the fry by herself? I'd guess there are about 30 at this point. Or should I try to remove them? If I remove them, what is the best method?

Sorry for all the angst, but I'm really worried . . .

 

[Tony]

Holly,

Not sure what advice to give you as I'm not too much of a new world guy. I do know an easy way to remove fry though. I use a larger diameter piece of airline tubing and simply syphon the fry out. Lonny told me about this last meeting I think... works great!

But I'm not even sure if you want to do this in the first place. Mom should be able to take care of the fry by herself, no? I know that this falls solely on the mother sometimes with larger, meaner cichlids where the father needs to be separated to avoid eating the fry/harming the mother.

Again, you may want to get confirmation from a seasoned new world guy...

Good luck.

 

[hollyfish2000]

Actually, I think the mom and dad are fighting . . .

The dad tried to come out to eat this morning and she pushed him back. Later, they seemed to be having some sort of stand-off, complete with a little lip-locking. I'm wondering if he wants to breed again or is eating the babies (I think this happens sometimes?) and she protecting the babies. More reason to try and remove them, I guess. The gang is down to about 20.

Tony -- how do you siphon with airline tube? Sorry to be so ignorant . . . I do have a large turkey baster that I use to blow things around in the tanks. I'm wondering if I could use that to suck them up?

 

[Tony]

Holly,

I use an old larger diameter airline tubing about 3 feet long... with an inside diameter of a pencil or so (not sure what dimension this is). Get a collection cup (or bucket) ready below the tank and start the syphon (just like you would for a water change).

Once the syphon is started, simply suck the little guys up and they'll end up in the bucket.

If you have trouble getting the end of the hose near the babies, you can try attaching a large diameter piece of rigid tubing to the end of the hose.

The turkey baster should work, so long as the seal between the tube and bulb are good. (I've never had one that sealed sufficiently to my liking, so I use the method above). Just make sure that the opening of the baster is large enough to not hurt the little guys.

Before you do all this though, you should get some advice from some of the new world guys. Perhaps removing the dad would be a better choice? While the babies would probably survive by themselves in a 2.5 or 5 gallon tank, it may be more interesting/better to watch mom take care of them.

Then again, being new parents, this may be part of the learning curve. Most other stories of new world breeding I've heard generally involve losing the first couple of batches to this.

Good luck. If you need some help removing the babies, I could try to drop by there tonight to help you out for a bit. Give me a call if you need a hand.

 

[Jumbie]

I would not take the fry out if the male is acting like that with them in the tank. I believe your right Holly, I think the male just wants to mate again and the female is not ready. If you take the fry out with this kind of behavior going on it will only make matters worse for the female and leading to a possible fatality. Herotilapia multispinosa are good parent cichlids and once they fry get to about .5-1" you could remove them.
Try asking Matt (Dogofwar) he has experience with them.

 

[hollyfish2000]

Thanks Tony, as always, for your offers of help, and Jumbie, thanks for the insight.

I'm veerrryyy reluctant to remove the fry. They're just doing so well and Mom is hanging in there and they are still so tiny. I'll just keep monitoring. I"m bummed, though, as the parents were doing so great as a couple.

 

[jonclark96]

They will figure it out eventually. I would leave the fry in with the parents. I had a group of fry with my HRP's a few weeks ago, and when I pulled the fry to a grow out tank, the male put a terrible beating on the female (not to mention that the none of the fry survived). She's all healed up now and they have another swarm of little ones buzzing around the tank.

 

[Spine]

I would leave the fry in the tank. I think the male won't bother anything since he's hiding all the time,just keep momma well feed.

 

[dogofwar]

What Kevin said - mama will raise the fry...

Sounds like she kicked dads butt. Keep an eye on him but he should be ok. Adding a handful of salt couldn't hurt.

Sometimes it takes a few times for them to figure out the pair dynamics.

Matt

 

[hollyfish2000]

Thanks, Matt. He doesn't appear to be wounded in any way. Mama cichlid must just have a very forceful personality!

Babies are dwindling each day. I assume this is normal. They're down to about 15 at this point. Mom is still guarding them, but not quite as aggressively as before, which is somewhat worrisome. Tetras and even cories are being able to get fairly close to her 'territory'.

 

[dogofwar]

What are you feeding them?

 

[hollyfish2000]

Babies are getting "First Bites" and encapsulated brine shrimp eggs. One problem is they're usually only getting one meal a day, in the mornings, as I get home late and don't feed them in the dark. They do appear to be growing, tho . . .

 

[hollyfish2000]

Baby drama is over -- at least for now. There were only about five babies left this morning. I was able to snatch one, but the rest scattered. Mom was clearly no longer interested in baby sitting. I pondered whether to try and raise one by myself and decided against it. I put him back in the main tank. There are lots of places to hide, so hopefully a couple will be able to manage on their own. Mom and Dad are back out and about. Dad seems particularly happy and is already clearing off the "spawning" rock, tho mom seems less than enthused at this point. I took the opportunity to do some tank maintenance, which I'd not done while the babies were around. I pruned, did a gravel vac, etc., so I'm much happier with how the tank looks overall. It was getting very ratty looking!

Thanks for all the hand-holding. This has been an educational experience. 'll know what to expect the next time, which I expect will be relatively soon.

 

[hollyfish2000]

Just as I was typing the last post, Dad changed color!! He went from golden yellow to orange in a second. Wow! He's definitely in the mood. Mom is not in breeding colors and is running away from him . . .

 

[dogofwar]

More drama than Melrose Place... It usually takes a few times for them to figure thngs out

make sure mama gets some peace and food

Matt