I have a few tanks, few different cichlids. Im thinking it may be time to start using plants soon. My tanks have PH between 7.6-7.8. I use african cichlid mix in the tanks with 7.8, and regular sand in the tanks with 7.6. I keep the temp in all of them 80f. I have 2 german blue rams, jack dempsey, green terror, convict, firemouth, electric yellow lab, red zebra, powder blue scolofi, jewel, acei, kenyi, demesoni. Obviously not everyones in the same tank however, im hoping to find 1 type of plant i can use in any tank. Just incase something doesnt work in one tank i can put it in another. Plus since im new to plants id like to keep it simple until i learn them. All tanks are tunning marineland led hoods with night(blue) and day settings.
Thinking about plants, no clue where to start
hollyfish2000
Members
I don't know if you have the right lights or enough wattage, but two easy plants are always java fern and anubias. Both do well in both SA tanks and African tanks, don't need a lot of light, don't need CO2 and are only rarely palatable to fish and since you can tie them or even glue them to rocks or wood, the fish can't rearrange them much. Water sprite and crypts are two other easy plants.
What kind of care does the plant require?
My understanding was that live plants would actually take down the amount of maintence needed in the aquarium. That the plants would bring down the nitrates.
I like the look of the java fern. Im thinking maybe 1 or 2 in the 55 just to test it out.
My understanding was that live plants would actually take down the amount of maintence needed in the aquarium. That the plants would bring down the nitrates.
I like the look of the java fern. Im thinking maybe 1 or 2 in the 55 just to test it out.
Beeman
Members
I'm a big fan of anubia. NO care required other than anchoring the base to rock or wood. You don't even root them into the substrate. Just rest them on the surface or tie them to a branch of wood. Any of the varieties are very hardy, and will do best in fact with subdued lighting in my experience.
hollyfish2000
Members
Yes, a fully planted tank with lots of growth will use up nitrate. low-light, slow growing plants much less so. In any event, you can't (well, I don't) use plants to reduce the water changes I do in my tanks. Nitrate is only one measureable component of water that makes a tank less healthy for fish.
mchambers
Former CCA member
Exactly
Exactly! Plants do use up some nitrates, but don't reduce the need for water changes or other maintenance.
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Plenipotentiary-at-large
Au Contraire
I believe they do. If one can achieve the right balance in a tank, water changes are not required.
I just visited my friend Justin in SF who runs Ocean Aquarium and is perhaps the most dedicated and competent retail fish fanatic I've ever met. He has effectively stopped doing water changes in his approx. 100 store tanks (mostly 20s but many smaller), and has a number of tanks that haven't had water changes in two years that were verdant and thriving despite only being lit by standard compact fluorescent household light bulbs. Ever a fan of the inexpensive, lo-tech approach, his formerly ardent allegiance to twice-weekly water changes has been replaced by what seems a superior and far less time-consuming strategy, namely establishing anaerobic (literally "living without air") bacterial colonies in the requisite 3" of substrate required to maintain them by inoculating tanks with a product called Microbe-Lift Special Blend. Other than air stones I'm not even sure he uses any other "filtration" on most of them beyond what is occurring "naturally" in the tanks. Diana Walstad explores this approach in Ecology of the PLanted Aquarium but it would seem that achieving it is a far less complex matter than she describes or is generally believed.
Despite my antipathy toward chems (at least bottled or industrial ones) and bottled bacteria, and a general belief/experience that they are unnecessary and just short of totally useless, I brought home a bottle MLSB to begin my journey down a similar path. I already often go a month on many/most of my tanks between water changes and don't worry about power outages that last less than 24 hours which I imagine is only possible because they're all full of plants and organic surface areas (leaves and wood) for bacteria.
When I asked Justin (who continues to maintain the healthiest retail stock in the Bay Area) if there was anything else involved, he said no except that about twice a month he pokes around through the substrate on the tanks with a chopstick or some such to vent any sulfur pockets that may be produced/accumulating from the anaerobes. Basically, if nature does it with just light, air and bacteria, no reason we can't do the same. Thus do I imagine, and have now so seen.
One other thing - this doesn't/won't work with sand as one needs to use small to medium gravel of the type so common in the trade to permit penetration/exchange in and out of the substrate. The upper third or so remains aerobic but gives way to anaerobic colonies underneath that I believe effectively digest/reduce the nitrates to nitrogen that then out-gases from the tank.
I believe they do. If one can achieve the right balance in a tank, water changes are not required.
I just visited my friend Justin in SF who runs Ocean Aquarium and is perhaps the most dedicated and competent retail fish fanatic I've ever met. He has effectively stopped doing water changes in his approx. 100 store tanks (mostly 20s but many smaller), and has a number of tanks that haven't had water changes in two years that were verdant and thriving despite only being lit by standard compact fluorescent household light bulbs. Ever a fan of the inexpensive, lo-tech approach, his formerly ardent allegiance to twice-weekly water changes has been replaced by what seems a superior and far less time-consuming strategy, namely establishing anaerobic (literally "living without air") bacterial colonies in the requisite 3" of substrate required to maintain them by inoculating tanks with a product called Microbe-Lift Special Blend. Other than air stones I'm not even sure he uses any other "filtration" on most of them beyond what is occurring "naturally" in the tanks. Diana Walstad explores this approach in Ecology of the PLanted Aquarium but it would seem that achieving it is a far less complex matter than she describes or is generally believed.
Despite my antipathy toward chems (at least bottled or industrial ones) and bottled bacteria, and a general belief/experience that they are unnecessary and just short of totally useless, I brought home a bottle MLSB to begin my journey down a similar path. I already often go a month on many/most of my tanks between water changes and don't worry about power outages that last less than 24 hours which I imagine is only possible because they're all full of plants and organic surface areas (leaves and wood) for bacteria.
When I asked Justin (who continues to maintain the healthiest retail stock in the Bay Area) if there was anything else involved, he said no except that about twice a month he pokes around through the substrate on the tanks with a chopstick or some such to vent any sulfur pockets that may be produced/accumulating from the anaerobes. Basically, if nature does it with just light, air and bacteria, no reason we can't do the same. Thus do I imagine, and have now so seen.
One other thing - this doesn't/won't work with sand as one needs to use small to medium gravel of the type so common in the trade to permit penetration/exchange in and out of the substrate. The upper third or so remains aerobic but gives way to anaerobic colonies underneath that I believe effectively digest/reduce the nitrates to nitrogen that then out-gases from the tank.
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Avatar
Plenipotentiary-at-large
Never again
Who in blazes put a smiley face in my post? One may delete my posts if they're offensive/inappropriate/etc. or for any reason whatsoever, capricious or otherwise, that a mod may choose, but editing is strictly off limits. Either restore it to original form or delete it altogether.
Who in blazes put a smiley face in my post? One may delete my posts if they're offensive/inappropriate/etc. or for any reason whatsoever, capricious or otherwise, that a mod may choose, but editing is strictly off limits. Either restore it to original form or delete it altogether.
mchambers
Former CCA member
I certainly didn't put the smiley face on your post, but I think you should just go with it. Gives your post a certain warmth and optimism that can be difficult to convey with just words.
On the subject of water changes, it may be that one can get away without doing them, but I'd say that should be tried only by very skilled aquarists.
As to MLSB, there is an interesting thread at MFK about using dried bacteria supplements intended for septic tanks, such as Rid-X, in aquaria. Some very experienced fishkeepers report good results. Perhaps the bacteria is the same as in MLSB? Impossible to know, since the vendors treat their ingredient lists like they are used by the NSA.
Here's the thread:
http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?536531-The-Use-of-Probiotics-in-Aquaculture
On the subject of water changes, it may be that one can get away without doing them, but I'd say that should be tried only by very skilled aquarists.
As to MLSB, there is an interesting thread at MFK about using dried bacteria supplements intended for septic tanks, such as Rid-X, in aquaria. Some very experienced fishkeepers report good results. Perhaps the bacteria is the same as in MLSB? Impossible to know, since the vendors treat their ingredient lists like they are used by the NSA.
Here's the thread:
http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?536531-The-Use-of-Probiotics-in-Aquaculture
Avatar
Plenipotentiary-at-large
Are we not "skilled"?
Working on it anyway. And it's moved past "may be" to "definitely".
The day I stop controlling content in my own posts will be my last one here.
Working on it anyway. And it's moved past "may be" to "definitely".
The day I stop controlling content in my own posts will be my last one here.
mchambers
Former CCA member
You are skilled; not many here are so skilled, however.
rupertoooo
Members
Fascinating stuff there Sam. I did a quick Google on Justin's shop and came across this real short youtube video of a handful of tanks and they are mighty impressive. If I ever get over in his neck of the woods again I will certainly be stopping in.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npUof5l1Ppo
Avatar
Plenipotentiary-at-large
Not quite
Not yet, and certainly not like that. Would make for good contest - longest continuous closed habitat, like a spaceship.
Not yet, and certainly not like that. Would make for good contest - longest continuous closed habitat, like a spaceship.
ddavila06
Members
the kind of fish you have will destroy most plants.. need tough stuff that they wont either like or wont be able to damage.. anubias and java ferns-
JasonC
Members
Sam, your friends tank maintenance style sounds like a heck of a talk... I would surely be interested!
jonclark96
Past CCA President
Post fixed.
mchambers
Former CCA member
Avatar
Plenipotentiary-at-large
That was the easy part...
Poster still needs serious maintenance/upgrades.
Poster still needs serious maintenance/upgrades.
Ok, so i can do some anuibus or java fern. Im just looking to help reduce nitrates, not skip on maintence. When i tested last 2 times the nitrates were were higher than i like, not really dangerous levels but the test turned red(40), i prefer to keep it in orange(10-20). Well see how the 55's doing this evening. Itll be the first test on it. Although those litte jerks barey use the entire tank. Everyone usually likes to stick together on one side. When one goes to the other side, everyone else follows. Weird fishys