Taking the time to do it right...

Tannin Aquatics

CCA Members
We love how more an more hobbyists are giving aquatic botanicals a go! We've seen some awesome tanks and some really great executions of natural-looking aquaecapes, vivariums, and aquatic features. As hobbyists explore the potential of these cool items, it's human nature that people sometimes...push it a little bit...you know, like not following our instructions about preparation and going slowly...

I spoke to a friend a couple of days back- a pretty experienced, successful aquarist who's kept and bred a lot of fishes in his time. He was remarking about his initial experiences with aquatic botanicals, when we got to the part about preparation, he was like, "Nah...I just toss 'em in the tank..." And of course, I was sort of, well- freaked out. Apparently, that was my friends "M.O." with leaves as well ("I've always just thrown them right in..."). I was surprised that anyone- especially an aquarist of his experience- would be so nonchalant when it came to adding anything to his aquariums. It's just not good practice, IMHO. (click to read more)


 

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Plenipotentiary-at-large
Pitch imperfect

This might be a little compelling if it was accompanied by at least one credible anecdote involving someone who actually killed his/her fish by adding "unprepared" leaves. Personally never even heard of such a thing and reckon if one is woods-wise enough to differentiate between clean dry hardwood leaves (shot selection) and those that have been on the receiving end of some metabolic transmigration event that the risk is effectively nil. Leaves are inherently clean and any microbes/insects they carry are extremely unlikely to effect fish or even be viable in an aquatic environment.

No cause to "freak out" over something as benign as adding "unprepared" leaves (or branches) to freshwater habitats - I've done it for years, nature has been doing it for millions (of years). Also something of a misnomer in calling them unprepared - they are prepared extremely well when one considers that they are both air-dried and sun-cured at the time they hit the ground. Nothing in a fresh leaf fall (or most dry dead branches) that represents a risk to freshwater fishtank inhabitants provided certain species of tree are avoided that contain compounds that might be toxic. Maple and oak are sublime (oak lasts longer), the tannins they contain are by and large as efficacious as those from the countries where our tank inhabitants originate, and they have precisely the same effect on pH. Nothing perilous in there and certainly nothing that a quick rinse and a few seconds in a microwave wouldn't counteract for those with weak hearts. As for the boiling, seems like all that accomplishes is wasting energy and robbing the leaves of a good part of their tannin content which is mostly why they're useful in the first place.

Sorry mate, but at least in the freshwater context at first blush this reads like unsubstantiated paranoia or a veiled marketing ploy, especially absent any hard evidence/experience with calamity arising from the use of unsterilized botanicals. Will allow that saltwater may very well be a different animal given the far more rigorous water parameters and sensitivities of reef species, but was/am not aware that leaves and other botanicals were/are commonly used in saltwater set-ups. Do appreciate the reverence for caution regarding the Kept and the obligations of the Keepers, but I'd recommend a little more rigorous analysis, research and/or hard evidence before you start implying that folks like me are irresponsible because we're not running our fish rooms like clinical laboratories.

During a period of almost five years in which I went from one tank to approx. 45 totaling around 1000 gallons, by the end virtually all of my tanks were tea-colored as a result of steady infusions of "unprepared" leaves, most everyone was spawning or attempting to, and there wasn't a single case of disease for the last two years. That's hardly definitive but it's pretty solid for empirical evidence that the whole "unprepared" botanical dog doesn't hunt...
 

Tannin Aquatics

CCA Members
This might be a little compelling if it was accompanied by at least one credible anecdote involving someone who actually killed his/her fish by adding "unprepared" leaves. Personally never even heard of such a thing and reckon if one is woods-wise enough to differentiate between clean dry hardwood leaves (shot selection) and those that have been on the receiving end of some metabolic transmigration event that the risk is effectively nil. Leaves are inherently clean and any microbes/insects they carry are extremely unlikely to effect fish or even be viable in an aquatic environment.

No cause to "freak out" over something as benign as adding "unprepared" leaves (or branches) to freshwater habitats - I've done it for years, nature has been doing it for millions (of years). Also something of a misnomer in calling them unprepared - they are prepared extremely well when one considers that they are both air-dried and sun-cured at the time they hit the ground. Nothing in a fresh leaf fall (or most dry dead branches) that represents a risk to freshwater fishtank inhabitants provided certain species of tree are avoided that contain compounds that might be toxic. Maple and oak are sublime (oak lasts longer), the tannins they contain are by and large as efficacious as those from the countries where our tank inhabitants originate, and they have precisely the same effect on pH. Nothing perilous in there and certainly nothing that a quick rinse and a few seconds in a microwave wouldn't counteract for those with weak hearts. As for the boiling, seems like all that accomplishes is wasting energy and robbing the leaves of a good part of their tannin content which is mostly why they're useful in the first place.

Sorry mate, but at least in the freshwater context at first blush this reads like unsubstantiated paranoia or a veiled marketing ploy, especially absent any hard evidence/experience with calamity arising from the use of unsterilized botanicals. Will allow that saltwater may very well be a different animal given the far more rigorous water parameters and sensitivities of reef species, but was/am not aware that leaves and other botanicals were/are commonly used in saltwater set-ups. Do appreciate the reverence for caution regarding the Kept and the obligations of the Keepers, but I'd recommend a little more rigorous analysis, research and/or hard evidence before you start implying that folks like me are irresponsible because we're not running our fish rooms like clinical laboratories.

During a period of almost five years in which I went from one tank to approx. 45 totaling around 1000 gallons, by the end virtually all of my tanks were tea-colored as a result of steady infusions of "unprepared" leaves, most everyone was spawning or attempting to, and there wasn't a single case of disease for the last two years. That's hardly definitive but it's pretty solid for empirical evidence that the whole "unprepared" botanical dog doesn't hunt...

I totally understand your orientation and concern here. And I'm sorry if you interpreted this as an admonition to run things in a clinical fashion, or took it in an insulting manner, inciting necessary paranoia. That was absolutely not the point. And, no, I have not conducted any rigorous scientific studies on botanical preparation. This was about applying common sense to the process. And I absolutely appreciate your opinion and position on this...in fact, I can't thank you enough for speaking out as a persona who represents the majority of hobbyists!

It's NOT applicable to everyone, so I truly regret if it implied that. It is geared towards what I have seen in my decades in the hobby/industry: Some hobbyists will not use common sense, will not take the time to even consider the potential affects of what they are adding to their systems, and just "dump away." Sad, almost unbelievable, but true. And although you are correct about having good experiences, as do I- when you are a business, marketing materials to people that many may not have used, and may not be familiar with, it is proper to admonish people to follow some sort of procedure or "best practice"- whatever you want to call it- when using this stuff...Labels on products are there for a reason, right?

As someone who has a degree in marketing, I can admit that the only "ploy" here is to remind hobbyists that they need to exercise responsibility when adding our products to their aquariums. If you find that offensive, I suppose it is possible, but from my standpoint, it is just good business practice. I want to create long term customers, and you do that by being honest, frank, and sometimes, a bit overly-simplistic I suppose. Obviously, this message is not targeted towards an experienced hobbyist like yourself, yet it is a message that is correct to give.

As a responsible business person, I find it imperative to give people warnings and information about using materials in their aquariums. And, with my wife being an attorney who daily sees litigation as a result of some people's failure to apply common sense, I hear this stuff and it simply makes no sense not to mention it once in a while. I really see no downside to advising people to exercise good judgement. I can reference lots of thing here, like "Fasten your seat belts", " Keep your hands and feet inside the roller coaster", "Watch for trains", "Stop"- etc. Things which make sense, and might even insult the attention of the bulk of us, yet nonetheless are a good idea to bring to the attention of everyone.

As former co-owner of marine livestock vendor Unique Corals, I can recall at least two occasions where customers purchased corals and added them to their aquariums, and reported immediate deaths of the corals. Upon discussing the matter wit the customers, it turned out that they were adding them to their FRESHWATER aquariums! That is almost unbelievable, but true. Now, granted, these are the fringe cases, yet nonetheless, it just makes sense to point out the obvious now and again.

Anyways- I sincerely appreciate your position and I think we're on the same page in many respects. I just choose to take a conservative position on this stuff, which may or may not be something you or other hobbyists choose to apply. Regardless, my experience, morals, and business ethic compel me to do what I feel is the best thing to help as many hobbyists as possible enjoy a great outcome with our products.

Regards,

Scott
 
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