Assume worst case scenario (e.g. long beams running parallel with tank), what could I do to easily support a tank of that size on the main level? In the basement directly below the tank there is a thin wall that separates a bathroom and a guest room. Could I put a number of vertical posts in that wall that would, without question, support the tank? If so, what kind of posts would I buy that would be just a 1.5" - 2" thick so they would fit in the wall and how many would I need?
Structural support for floor below 500 gallon aquarium
rainforestexp
Members
Can you send pictures? Ill take a look at it and see. There are a couple factors as well to take into consideration. Length of the beams? Length of the bolts/ nails? Also what is the estimated total weight once filled? In case you not sure water weighs 8.33 pounds per gallon. Acrylic tank that size is around 800-1200 pounds roughly. Glass tank is 2400 pounds roughly.
cabinetmkr39
DavidG / CCA Member
The easiest way would be framing lumber 2 x s studs vertical from floor plate to top wall plate cut snugly. add them every 16 inches. option would be a lolly column steel that will fit in side a wall cavity and is adjustable. Lowes and Home depot sell both.
Thanks. The goal here is to not post pictures or describe specifics because I have a wall separating two rooms that I can use to ideally put in place some vertical support that will more than compensate for the weight of the tank.
cabinetmkr39,
I know literally nothing about this subject. Are you saying that if I just lined the wall with a bunch of 2 x 4s from the floor (or the horizontal wood piece that is probably just above the floor?) then that'd be more than enough for a 500 gallon acrylic tank?
This column looks to be just a bit too thick and the height cannot be adjusted: http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs...=10053&rough=Value&storeId=10051#.ULrXAMXA_Io
cabinetmkr39,
I know literally nothing about this subject. Are you saying that if I just lined the wall with a bunch of 2 x 4s from the floor (or the horizontal wood piece that is probably just above the floor?) then that'd be more than enough for a 500 gallon acrylic tank?
This column looks to be just a bit too thick and the height cannot be adjusted: http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs...=10053&rough=Value&storeId=10051#.ULrXAMXA_Io
dogofwar
CCA Members
I wouldn't put a 500g tank on anything but a slab.
That's roughly 5,000 pounds!
Matt
That's roughly 5,000 pounds!
Matt
69cichlids
Members
If you don't know what your doing I would have a contractor someone who knows what they are doing come look at everything. If a wall is only 1.5"-2" thick that's not a load bearing wall, must only be 2x2 studs in the wall. I would be placing those support columns under the tank and rebuilding that wall.
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Am I misunderstanding something? Each lolly alone supports 10,000 to 20,000 pounds and I would put 2 to 3 evenly spaced in the wall.
I will certainly be using a contractor to do the work, but I would like to have a sense of what is involved. I realize the wall I am referring to in this thread is not a load bearing wall. The question is whether I could just stick a few lolly supports in the wall that combined will support anywhere from 30,000 to 60,000 lbs and know that via that kind of overkill of support I have plenty to support the tank that will not weigh more than 6,000 lbs.
Usually it is not that simple for most people because they do not want 2 or 3 additional poles in their basement. It just so happens that this dividing wall that I have is directly below and runs the length of the proposed tank. As a result, I can hide multiple poles.
Also, while I appreciate all opinions, if folks have actual substantive knowledge or expertise then please let me know. It's often hard to distinguish who is spit-balling and who really knows what they are talking about. Again, nothing wrong with the former. It just isn't nearly as valuable to me as the latter.
I will certainly be using a contractor to do the work, but I would like to have a sense of what is involved. I realize the wall I am referring to in this thread is not a load bearing wall. The question is whether I could just stick a few lolly supports in the wall that combined will support anywhere from 30,000 to 60,000 lbs and know that via that kind of overkill of support I have plenty to support the tank that will not weigh more than 6,000 lbs.
Usually it is not that simple for most people because they do not want 2 or 3 additional poles in their basement. It just so happens that this dividing wall that I have is directly below and runs the length of the proposed tank. As a result, I can hide multiple poles.
Also, while I appreciate all opinions, if folks have actual substantive knowledge or expertise then please let me know. It's often hard to distinguish who is spit-balling and who really knows what they are talking about. Again, nothing wrong with the former. It just isn't nearly as valuable to me as the latter.
69cichlids
Members
Since you are having a contractor doing the work you should talk to them, they will know what to do and might be doing things differently then what other's would do...I was telling you what I would do, you said the columns were to big to fit inside your current wall, so replace the wall with a thicker wall that would hide your columns...since you won't post pictures or measurements it's hard for anyone to tell you what should be done...I'm sure your contractor will need to look at your situation and take measurements before telling you what needs to be done...
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Thanks. I'll obviously talk with a contractor. However, what I am hoping is that someone here has the knowledge or expertise to answer two narrow questions:
1. Am I correct that using 2 or 3 lolly columns will be more than enough to support 6000 lbs in an 8 x 3 tank on the floor above?
2. The current wall probably only has room for 2" diameter. Are there narrower support systems than the lolly columns (3" to 4" diameter) that will fit in the wall?
1. Am I correct that using 2 or 3 lolly columns will be more than enough to support 6000 lbs in an 8 x 3 tank on the floor above?
2. The current wall probably only has room for 2" diameter. Are there narrower support systems than the lolly columns (3" to 4" diameter) that will fit in the wall?
69cichlids
Members
The smallest diameter I know of for a steel lolly columnis 3" and I would only use 1 in the middle of where the tank is sitting at, after the wall is rebuilt
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69cichlids
Members
2 or 3 should be more then enough
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Hawkman2000
Members
Cut out the ceiling and build a bulkhead out of LVL. Also put 3 or 4 LVL short ways inside bulkhead. Run double LVL longways inside where wall is going to be. Support with 3 or 4 lolly columns or 4 or 5 4x4. Make sure you use hangers on all joints.
You will need to cut up foundation to install footers any way you go.
Where are you located?
You will need to cut up foundation to install footers any way you go.
Where are you located?
Tony
Alligator Snapping Turtle/Past Pres
Don't just talk to a contractor, get a stamped design from a professional civil engineer and have a contractor install the work.
I am an engineer - and have built several decks for people back in the day and would still not feel 100% comfortable doing this.
rainforestexp
Members
If you are being serious in wanting this done let us come out and check it out for you. My dad is a civil engineer and we have a structural engineer too that helps us with input.
http://www.brownandcaldwell.com/technicalPapers.asp
http://www.brownandcaldwell.com/technicalPapers.asp
Tony
Alligator Snapping Turtle/Past Pres
Let's back up a second....
Do you have this tank?
Do you have this tank?
Thanks to all for the helpful comments. I do not have the tank yet. I think it would be a mistake to spend this kind of money on a tank before I have the proper support.
My hope, and goal, is to not break the bank in providing the requisite support. It sounds like some think that is possible, while others do not.
Tony, can you explain in laymen's terms (read: to a dolt like me who is happy if he can assemble a toy kitchen set that comes with detailed instructions) why you think any old contractor installing multiple lolly columns won't necessarily do the trick even though they should be able to support the load 5+ times over?
My hope, and goal, is to not break the bank in providing the requisite support. It sounds like some think that is possible, while others do not.
Tony, can you explain in laymen's terms (read: to a dolt like me who is happy if he can assemble a toy kitchen set that comes with detailed instructions) why you think any old contractor installing multiple lolly columns won't necessarily do the trick even though they should be able to support the load 5+ times over?
Tony
Alligator Snapping Turtle/Past Pres
Sorry...
Through discussion, your plan evolved into putting the columns in a wall that runs parallel to the tank.
So essentially, you have a line support. If you take the flooring out of the picture (which without analysis, you should), you would practically be trying to support a large rectangular object on a wall. (eg: Try standing up a book on its end and balancing a full cooler of beer on top. It is somewhat precarious.)
The safer way to support the tank would be to situate the supports so that they are in a plane and not in a line (ie: 2x outside the wall, 2x inside), in a rectangular configuration under the tank. As Chad mentioned, you should install beams to support the tank evenly across its length atop the columns. Otherwise, your tank will almost certainly fail.
As Chad also mentioned, your basement floor is going to be a problem. You will need to check the shear capacity of the concrete at the bottom of the lolly columns. This involves checking thickness, strength and reinforcing of the slab (likely only WWF to control cracking).
With the relatively small size of the baseplates, you will end up with incredibly high distributed loads. This will has potential to cause shear failure in the likely thin, low strength residential slab-on-grade, which will result in cracking, potential water migration from the subgrade and worst off, uneven settlement of the columns (and the tank above). You will either have to install footings or distribute the load across the top of the slab - which involves running beams or plates across the floor between the columns.
I've said it before on this forum and others whenever these topics come up: Take all of this with a grain of salt. I am not a PE and have not not reviewed the actual conditions. I assume no responsibility for any information that may be inferred from this post. If you are serious, get a professional engineer to review the condition. Besides potential massive damage to your house, a tank this large involves potential for loss of life.
I know a guy who maintained a 4' 150 gal tank that was on a third floor of a new house. It fell through the floor and resulted in $15K damage to the house. Monster tanks on wood-framed construction scare the he ll out of me.
Through discussion, your plan evolved into putting the columns in a wall that runs parallel to the tank.
So essentially, you have a line support. If you take the flooring out of the picture (which without analysis, you should), you would practically be trying to support a large rectangular object on a wall. (eg: Try standing up a book on its end and balancing a full cooler of beer on top. It is somewhat precarious.)
The safer way to support the tank would be to situate the supports so that they are in a plane and not in a line (ie: 2x outside the wall, 2x inside), in a rectangular configuration under the tank. As Chad mentioned, you should install beams to support the tank evenly across its length atop the columns. Otherwise, your tank will almost certainly fail.
As Chad also mentioned, your basement floor is going to be a problem. You will need to check the shear capacity of the concrete at the bottom of the lolly columns. This involves checking thickness, strength and reinforcing of the slab (likely only WWF to control cracking).
With the relatively small size of the baseplates, you will end up with incredibly high distributed loads. This will has potential to cause shear failure in the likely thin, low strength residential slab-on-grade, which will result in cracking, potential water migration from the subgrade and worst off, uneven settlement of the columns (and the tank above). You will either have to install footings or distribute the load across the top of the slab - which involves running beams or plates across the floor between the columns.
I've said it before on this forum and others whenever these topics come up: Take all of this with a grain of salt. I am not a PE and have not not reviewed the actual conditions. I assume no responsibility for any information that may be inferred from this post. If you are serious, get a professional engineer to review the condition. Besides potential massive damage to your house, a tank this large involves potential for loss of life.
I know a guy who maintained a 4' 150 gal tank that was on a third floor of a new house. It fell through the floor and resulted in $15K damage to the house. Monster tanks on wood-framed construction scare the he ll out of me.
Last edited:
dogofwar
CCA Members
Tony,
Extremely helpful. Thank you. This is actually an older home that is built like a rock, at least compared to newer homes and it would not be the third level, but the point remains that ultimately it sounds like if I want to put this anywhere other than on one of our two foundation levels (split model) there is no good way to achieve peace of mind by putting a few lolly columns beneath the tank even if they ought to support the tank 5 times over and then some. Instead, I need to have an engineer/contractor sign off on the requisite support existing.
Extremely helpful. Thank you. This is actually an older home that is built like a rock, at least compared to newer homes and it would not be the third level, but the point remains that ultimately it sounds like if I want to put this anywhere other than on one of our two foundation levels (split model) there is no good way to achieve peace of mind by putting a few lolly columns beneath the tank even if they ought to support the tank 5 times over and then some. Instead, I need to have an engineer/contractor sign off on the requisite support existing.
Hawkman2000
Members
I don't think you should be to scared about the cost of hiring an engineer and a contractor. I have worked on projects (additions, remodeling) where similar work had to be done. But this is actually relatively small in comparison to the scale of most of the jobs we've done.
However, I would not trust the original foundation to be strong enough to withstand the pressure. I also would not trust the existing floor beams to be strong enough to keep themselves from twisting, cracking, and leaning to one side of the supporting wall.
Another thought, You could take to opportunity to set up tanks on both floors, with the filtration systems for both in the basement. Or just have the filtration system in the basement.
You could also take the opportunity to install supply and drain for auto-top-off systems, and independent electrical feeds.
However, I would not trust the original foundation to be strong enough to withstand the pressure. I also would not trust the existing floor beams to be strong enough to keep themselves from twisting, cracking, and leaning to one side of the supporting wall.
Another thought, You could take to opportunity to set up tanks on both floors, with the filtration systems for both in the basement. Or just have the filtration system in the basement.
You could also take the opportunity to install supply and drain for auto-top-off systems, and independent electrical feeds.
