Strange happenings

cichlidaddicted

cichlidaddicted

Members
So I noticed my bengas mating this afternoon and IME my females all seem to breed between the 25th and 5th not sure why just an observation so I took a look around and saw two fish i recieved mail order last week. Both these fish were sold as males and upon arrival I was also convinced they were. Hmmmmm, why are two males mating! They weren't of the same species so their young will never make it to a safe refuge. But what gives this tiawan reef is about 3 inches blue coming in on his face, body turning yellowish orange white blaze forming all the way down to his eyes white dorsal margin with red lappets, egg spots ect. I don't get it. This fish fooled jay at cichlids are special and it fooles me big time. How is this possible do female tiawans get the white crest? Is there any evidence to back up the claims that a fish could change sex? Does this fish look male to anyone else?

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Ading522

Members
i do have a fish like that in color, and i am also not sure whether or not its male or female..i know for a fact that its not coloring up because of the huge male taiwan reef and a couple other big males..once i get them separated, i am sure some of it will color up.. what kind of mating behavior did they produce? because a "shaking" dance may also mean a warning or show of dominance.. ive seen it in my mbunas.. and they go around at each other in circles trying to take a piece of each others tail..
 
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Ading522

Members
hmmmmmm..well..if in that case, you should inform Jay.. or you can trade it or sell it to someone who is breeding taiwans..
 
cichlidaddicted

cichlidaddicted

Members
Is it at all possible for a male fish to pretend to mate and or hold? I watched it happen and it almost appeared like he was faking it. His buccal cavity is not protruding and I would never know it happened if I didn't watch it happen. As of now I'm still not completely willing to accept that this is a female. I have never seen a female with this much color let alone a juvenile female.

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JasonC

JasonC

Members
I don't know how it works with rift lake cichlids, but I know in apistos, where there is also a heavy sexual dimorphism, that the more the farm raised lines are bred for the male coloration, the more females are starting to show male traits like dorsal lappets, color traits (like the unpaired fins on all the double/triple/mega red cf's), and size. I know you said you purchased the fish from CAS, but do you know where it came from before he got them?
 
cichlidaddicted

cichlidaddicted

Members
JasonC said:
I don't know how it works with rift lake cichlids, but I know in apistos, where there is also a heavy sexual dimorphism, that the more the farm raised lines are bred for the male coloration, the more females are starting to show male traits like dorsal lappets, color traits (like the unpaired fins on all the double/triple/mega red cf's), and size. I know you said you purchased the fish from CAS, but do you know where it came from before he got them?
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I have no idea, this is one of the major problems in the hobby, no matter how many questions I find answers too those answers only creates more questions. Imo Unless i have proof the fish is f0 or f1 its not even worth pursuing I am a firm believer that there are many more hybrids thought to be pure than owners want to admit. Another issue if two f0 mate and produce two f1's that mate are the fry still f1? Or if an f1 mates with an f3 what are the resulting offspring? And whose to say that my two f0's ancestors didn't cross breed at some point when the were wild fish? We don't keep male and females from different species in the same tank due to risks of hubridization, if this risk is so high and these fish coexist in the wild wouldn't that risk be applicable for wild fish? Einstein once said the more I learn the less I really know or somthing along those lines...how true it is.

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chriscoli

chriscoli

Administrator
There are documented incidents where male fish hold.....one of our past speakers even showed us video (Anthony Tu speaking on Frontosas) of him stripping a male fish.

That being said, I don't know how common it is. I know it's a silly question, but did you take a peek in its mouth and actually see the eggs? The reason I ask....once I got all excited because a new fish was holding....so I pulled her from the tank and she spit a huge mouthful of pellet food she had been hoarding. This was a while after feeding, so I was surprised to see it.
 
cichlidaddicted

cichlidaddicted

Members
Very interesting I noticed that while mating between dancing the fish was taking other stuff in her mouth (floating waste, gravel) I found this odd it is a pig of a fish and still appears as if its chasing food but stopping right before he grabs it. I began to wonder because it was right after the sunshines mated and there are two other fish with there vent dropped about to mate? Is there some hormone or something present in the tank that confused this young fish to think he should be mating? He has been in the tank for a week and I've never had a fish this new breed. Its all very weird. Does anyone know if female TR have a white crest? If he does have eggs could he have snatched them from the breeding sunshines? Also his buccal cavity is no where near extended but he keeps his mouth shut and appears to tumble the eggs but not as often as any other holding fish I've seen.

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chriscoli

chriscoli

Administrator
I think I've also heard of one female picking up or stealing another female's eggs as well and incubating hers and another fish's brood. Seems to me that it's be easy for a confused male to do this.

Strange things happen when we put fish into glass boxes.
 
cichlidaddicted

cichlidaddicted

Members
Reality
Step 1- turn on cartoon for rambunctious two year old
Step 2- begin emptying stone structure that's 6 feet long 18 inches deep and a foot tallconsisting of probably over fifty stones
Step 3- scream at two year old for creating a disaster area.
Step 4- begin chasing fish
Step 5- interupt step 4 to tie rambunctious two year old (see step one) to bed.
Step 6- finish chasing fish (see step four)
Step 7-check for eggs
Step 8- return fish to tank
Step 9- return stone structure( see step 2)
Step 10- clean up wet mess on floor from tank
Step 11- clean up mess on floor from two year old
Step 12- clean water streaks and spots on glass and return rock buckets to basement.
Step 13-answer knock on door
Step 14- explain to police that the neighbor's complaints of screaming two year old were not related to child abuse
Step 15- untie said two year old from bed.


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cichlidaddicted

cichlidaddicted

Members
Just an update, I caught the fish opened mouth saw eggs, very few. Strangely enough he looks more male than ever. He is eating as if he has no eggs. It was a strange set of affairs first the sunshines mated then the tiawan reef incedent immediately followed by OB, otter point and fryeri mating. All in a three day span. Now every female in the tank is holding. Not sure of the science behind how males know females are producing eggs but its obvious they know sometimes hours or even a day or two prior. it all makes me question if this is a female or a very confused young male who either swiped some eggs or is holding some smalls pieces of aragonite or gravel.

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