Parent Encouragement Program for GBRs?

[mchambers]

I think I need the piscine version of Dear Abby for this question. I've got a beautiful pair of German blue rams, from Frank Cowherd, and every few weeks I see eggs. Unfortunately, the parents seem to have very weak parenting skills. The mom does some guarding of the eggs, but she seems to have attention issues, and often wanders away from the eggs. The dad doesn't seem all that interested in the eggs.

Last night, when I walked over to the tank, the mom excitedly rushed over, hoping for food, leaving the eggs unguarded. I fed the tank, and eventually she went back to the eggs. This morning, the eggs were gone.

This has happened four or five times now. After a few days,the eggs disappear, and the parents are just swimming around. The mom's colors fade a little, and she seems a little stressed. The male chases her around the tank, not doing any physical harm, but clearly they are on the outs.

A few weeks later, they'll do the whole process again. I've removed the other tank inhabitants, except for some male Endlers who pay no attention to the eggs, so I'm pretty one of the GBRS is eating the eggs.

I've read on other forums that the ram parents have go through a few spawnings before they learn how to raise fry. Is this true? How do they they learn? Can I enroll them in a GBRS parenting class? Should i just hope they do in fact learn? Or should I remove the eggs and raise the fry myself?

 

[verbal]

I would try removing the male(and the endlers) in the next spawn. If it is the mom eating the eggs, artifical raising may be the way to go.

 

[Avatar]

Dithers

I'd try larger dither fish than Endlers or just pull the eggs. If you're serious about stimulating "parenting" then an actual threat to the eggs is the only thing I can think of to illicit the desired response.

 

[Jmty]

got the same problem matt you are not alone,removed plecos from tank saw them eating the eggs,(no did not killed them)then was the cories (don't know if they ate the eggs,now got some endlers still ate the eggs , will remove big daddy next time see what happens???,will let you know.

 

[mchambers]

I don't think the Endlers done it (ate the eggs, that is). They are too busy trying to find a female Endler to bother with the eggs.

I had neon tetras and corydoras in the tank before, and the GBRs didn't show any better instincts. I'm tempted to move the eggs.

 

[Frank Cowherd]

If the eggs survive until they hatch, the fry are often moved to another place and they are so small you will not see them, at least I cannot. The fry do not have much chance however unless the tank is heavily planted. You can also promote a better chance for the fry if you feed live foods, particularly daphnia which can stay alive in the tank until they are eaten.

 

[hollyfish2000]

With my experience with rainbows, it was about the pair bond itself. When I got a pair that actually liked each other, I ended up with so many successful spawnings that, well, you all know that story!! Boy is a doofus, would be my guess. Get her a new boyfriend.

 

[Avatar]

Possibility

Boy is a doofus, would be my guess. Get her a new boyfriend.

And just what would be the basis/empiricism for this bit of conjecture? Was it something I said?

Frank makes an excellent point about babies being moved by the parent(s). It can take close to a week for fry to become free-swimming once they hatch, they can all fit in the fold of a small Anubias leaf, and I've done numerous water changes only to discover fry a day or two later from Nanncaras and Apistos. Am not in the habit of disturbing brooding parents, and was only luck that saved them from being suctioned out in the course of cleaning the tank as I had no idea they were there.

 

[dogofwar]

I've never tried with rams but with some other cichlids that needed a little help in exciting their parental instincts, I've kept another cichlid behind a divider in the spawning tank.

The parents think that there is a threat...but there isn't really one. Unless, of course, they spawn next to the divider and let the babies swim onto the other side of the tank!

Matt

 

[mchambers]

Like Sam, I see no evidence that the dad is the problem. Could be, of course, but the mom seems pretty scatterbrained, too.

I have not seen any sign that the eggs have hatched and the fry have been moved. I'm familiar with this practice with Bolivian rams (where the dad mostly guarded the fry) and rainbow cichlids, where the parents had a modern relationship with the child rearing seemingly divided pretty equally. I haven't seen any digging in the substrate nor a parent guarding a pit.

Guess I'll remove dad next time and see if that helps.

 

[Cyianara69]

I'm in the same boat with Matt. My GBR pair just can't seem to get it right. The furtherest most along I've see them get is that they actually moved the wigglers to another part of the tank. When they did this, I had two quarter size angels with them but I've have since move the angels out of the tank as they've started to get big. I'm getting to point where I might try raise artificially but then I start thinking, I really don't have room for that many GBRS ...... so I just let nature take its course.

 

[samsmobb]

Having has multiple ram spawns from 6+ pairs of rams, one thing you can look into is also making sure you feed the parents alot. I found mine would guard their eggs from everything until every few spawns I would work early morning it late night or all day and I wouldn't be home to feed them and their eggs would be gone. Other wise I feed usually 2-3 times a day with a fasting every week

 

[mchambers]

That's an interesting point. I usually feed my fish once a day, five days a week. Maybe I'll increase the frequency of feeding the rams.

 

[Cyianara69]

I feed mine basically 2 times a day .... still hasn't really help me.

 

[ErnieG]

Frank it right about having a heavy planted tank, thats exactly what he told me when i go my 2 pairs of rams from him. Well 3 days after i got them both pairs spawned in my community tank at the same time it was crazy ( Frank will back me up on this), both parents still have there babies and growing in my 55gallon community tank. there tank mates are as follows, 4 adult angels, 12 endlers, 1inch sajica pair, 2 5inch plecos, 4 swordtails, 2dwarf gourami, 2bala sharks, and 2 albino cory cats. So plant your tank well and a good bond is all you need.

 

[Jmty]

hey matt there is hope my just got a fry ,unexpected the usually where lying eggs on the beggining of the month??? and now they are agressive to the next door neighbord,so let it be,they come around.love is in the air.

 

[mchambers]

Good to know. My GBRs and Electric Blue Rams both laid eggs last week, but we were away for the weekend, so I couldn't follow their progress. Didn't see any signs of fry last night.

I may try artificial rearing next.

 

[chriscoli]

This has been an very helpful thread, since mine just spawned a few days ago. So far (and I may be jinxing myself by writing this) they're being good parents. They've moved their wigglers a few times so far. The other day I couldn't find them and figured they'd eaten them...but no, they were just moved. So I risked it and went in with a pipet and stole about half of their brood. I've got them in an external breeder box (the Marina hang-on type that I like so much) on the same tank with a ton of guppy grass and java moss. I've been leaving a nightlight on for them and feeding as usual (daily when I get home from work). We'll see if they're still there tonight!

 

[mchambers]

Only you would use a pipet! Good luck with them.

 

[chriscoli]

Omg! so I came home tonight to find a HUGE SWARM of free-swimmers! Yay! NOW WHAT DO IT DO???? they are sooo teeny!

What do you all feed these guys as a first food?

BTW, the ones I "rescued" into the breeder box are not doing well. IMO, it speaks volumes for the importance of parental care.

These are my favorite "aquarium" pipets (by the way, in my lab at work, they are officially known as "dropper thingers")
http://www.amazon.com/Transfer-Pipe...qid=1361330071&sr=8-8&keywords=transfer+pipet

I like that they are disposable....I reuse them for a while, but they're cheap and easy to replace if they get gross. And you can trim the tip off if you need a larger hole for picking up bigger fry and eggs.