Nitrite spike and rainbow babies!!

[hollyfish2000]

You know it's going to be a rough morning when you wake up to MTS lined up at the water line of your tank!

I'd pulled up all the plants, removed the "extra" pair of rainbow cichlids and did a pretty good (though not great) gravel vac on Saturday as my favorite pair of rainbows was raising a swarm of fry and I wanted to give them a fighting chance to do it on their own without interference from the other pair.

As soon as I saw the snails this morning and realized the rainbows were in serious trouble, I did a quick test. Ammonia 0; nitrite probably 1. I've been here before and I HATE this.

Quick water change plus sponge filter from another tank plus swapped out a Fluval 305 with another tank plus a bottle of Dr. Tim's. Leave the water somewhat low to get splash. The last two rummies were gonners. Everyone else seemed OK and perked up pretty fast (even though the nitrite was still elevated). I wrote off the babies as a complete loss.

NOPE. The little buggers were all clustered at the water line in the back near the outputs and when their parents revived, they went about collecting them and by the time I left this morning I'd swear they had as big a cluster as they had the previous night. That is some impressive fry and some great parents. I'm nervous about what I'll find when I get home from work, htough. I can only hope the measures I put in place will start working soon. Fortunately, the tank is pretty lightly stocked and full of plants. And no one got fed this morning. The BN was very unhappy when I took her cucumber away.

Not sure what caused the spike. I had used aged water -- except for one bucket -- but had seriously disturbed the gravel. Sometimes this fish thing is more trouble than it's worth . . . :angry:

 

[minifoot77]

its never more trouble than its worth and i hope you saved em holly

Posted via mobile.capitalcichlids.org

 

[Tony]

Bummer Holly. Sorry you lost your rummies, but sounds like everything worked out for the good.

If you need anything - extra sponges or pumps or whatever, hit me up.

 

[hollyfish2000]

tony -- sent you a pm. I'll be home tonight by 5:30 and check on the status of the tank. I may ask to borrow another seeded sponge depending on how it's going. Come get the other rainbows if you can . . .

 

[Tony]

I'll swing by the house to pick up a couple of sponges and then stop by. You need a small air pump as well?

 

[hollyfish2000]

No, I"m OK with air pumps

 

[jonclark96]

Glad things appear to be okay, Holly. You'd be surprised at the resiliency of fry. When Matt had his fire last year, one of the last tanks that we cleared out was a pair of young platinum HRP's. They had a swarm of fry swimming around in water that was around 60 degrees and hadn't been filtered for over 24 hours...

 

[hollyfish2000]

that's heartening. I'm leaving work early today to head home and check things out. I just really want the parents and the babies to live. These nitrite spikes are really awful and I'm stumped as to why this happens to me. I assume because I disturbed the gravel, but why the %$^# do we have filters if they're not also supporting the biological colony????

 

[Andrewtfw]

I am glad to ehar that all is okay with your rainbows. Hopefully you solved the problem. I am unsure as to why you seem to have this problem, though it is likely that overcleaning is to blame. I caused the same problem when I thuroughly cleaned my 54 corner to add fish that required different chemistry. Then nitrites were the first problem, followed by a severe outbreak of ick. Fortunately, between frequent water changes, the normal ick remedies and the aid of a UV, I was able to get the fish healthy with no losses. I hope your situation is ick-less.

 

[mchambers]

I'm still puzzled why overcleaning would lead to high nitrites. Aren't nitrites water soluble and in the water column? Or is the theory that they are sitting in the gravel, and are released when the substrate is stirred up?

Not trying to argue, but just wondering. . .

 

[hollyfish2000]

My assumption is that heavy cleaning would remove the biological colony living in the gravel and cause the "crash" and resulting nitrite spike. Interestingly, no problems with ammonia, just nitrite. Which has happened to me before.

When I got home the rainbow parents were back in full color and happily guarding their swarm of fry. One of the other tetras died (total of 3, but that doesn't bother me.) Nitrite was still measureable either .25 or .5 depending on how you read it.

I did a 30 percent water change and added another bottle of Dr. Tim's and have lots of splash. Of course, doing a water change now, after adding Dr. Tim's this morning, is somewhat counter indicated. But I"d rather do the water change and add more than just sit and wait . . .

 

[Hawkman2000]

Always sad to hear (and experience) these things. I think you are correct assuming that the heavy gravel cleaning caused the problem. I was always told to just skim the surface of the gravel unless you already have a problem. This is also why I use Seachem Stability with every water change to help maintain my cycle.

 

[mchambers]

Nitrites

My assumption is that heavy cleaning would remove the biological colony living in the gravel and cause the "crash" and resulting nitrite spike. Interestingly, no problems with ammonia, just nitrite. Which has happened to me before.

When I got home the rainbow parents were back in full color and happily guarding their swarm of fry. One of the other tetras died (total of 3, but that doesn't bother me.) Nitrite was still measureable either .25 or .5 depending on how you read it.

I did a 30 percent water change and added another bottle of Dr. Tim's and have lots of splash. Of course, doing a water change now, after adding Dr. Tim's this morning, is somewhat counter indicated. But I"d rather do the water change and add more than just sit and wait . . .

But I thought that most of the beneficial bacteria were in the filter, not the gravel. If so, why would it matter if you damaged the bacteria in the gravel (and how does this apply to aquaria using pool filter sand)? Maybe you need a bigger biowheel? (joke!)

One of these days, I'll listen to this podcast with Dr. Tim regarding aquarium bacteria:

http://www.petliferadio.com/aquariumaniaep22.html

Until then, I'll be perplexed.

 

[mscichlid]

How deep is your gravel, Holly?

 

[hollyfish2000]

The gravel in this tank is not insanely deep. 2.5", I'd guess. I run a Fluval 405 and 305 on this tank. I switched out the 305 this morning with one of my other tanks (one of the reasons I run two canisters on all tanks is to be able to do this). STill, it always seems to me as if most of the biological filter ends up in the gravel and NOT the filter. Case in point, the tank where I took the seeded fluval and presumably gave it back a "crashed" filter, registered no nitrite today . . .

Thanks to Tony, who brought me two seeded sponge filters, plus the water change, plus more Dr. Tim's the nitrite is down to .25. I think the rainbows are very hardy and are doing fine. Fry, too.

I do love these rainbows. If you guy could have seen them rounding up the fry this morning after both parents were revived after clearly being near death, and the fact that the fry survived by clustering near the outtakes. Amazing, really.

 

[hollyfish2000]

Tony -- I think your sponge filters are doing the trick. Nitrite below .25. Whew. I really hope to raise some of those fry. Hope the pair you got acclimate well to your 45. I think they're going to love it and make babies for you soon!

 

[Avatar]

Katie bar the door

But I thought that most of the beneficial bacteria were in the filter, not the gravel. If so, why would it matter if you damaged the bacteria in the gravel (and how does this apply to aquaria using pool filter sand)?

They are in her set-up, should be in anything that's non-UG. Depending on how coarse the gravel is a lot of material could end up in the substrate, less likely with finer material and especially sand. Seems like if the filter cultures are mature and operating this shouldn't happen in either case but have heard tell of 'dead areas' and such in substrate harboring nastiness which I suppose could include a lot of overripe waste just waiting for enough oxygen to explosively decompose. Still, seems like the filters should have dealt with it unless the bacteria inside took a hit during the cleaning.

But why your gravel so deep Woman? Must have a lot of plants in there. I don't think I've got much of anything over an inch deep and most are probably closer to half of that. I want to see a picture of this tank (preferably with filter intakes/output and locations). Please. Need data so that I can virtually invade your tank.

Samuel
Master Conjecturalist

 

[Hawkman2000]

I suppose could include a lot of overripe waste just waiting for enough oxygen to explosively decompose.

I have been told that this is exactly what happens.

 

[Avatar]

Who really knows?

I've been told a lot of things. Hard to say if they were more true than not.

 

[Tony]

Tony -- I think your sponge filters are doing the trick. Nitrite below .25. Whew. I really hope to raise some of those fry. Hope the pair you got acclimate well to your 45. I think they're going to love it and make babies for you soon!

Great to hear, Holly.

Your 2nd pair of rainbows is loving life in the 45. I dropped them in last night and they hid for a while, but after about 20 minutes, were cruising all over the place, checking out their new digs. I'll shoot some video tonight.