Newbie - 10 starter questions

[boobaloos]

Hi all. I'm new to this - after watching a Mutant Planet episode on African cichlids with my 4-yr old daughter (who loves animals, like me) I went out and bought a 70G tank. We are psyched to start buying some African cichlids this weekend. I have some starter questions that you may be able to help me with:
1. How long should I wait after filling the tank? Is 3 days OK? I added the dechlorinator and the filter is running smoothly.
2. Do cichlids like the little bubble makers?
3. Do I need to boil any rocks or flower pots that I put in the tank?
4. Do you recommend putting sand in, or just pebbles and rocks? (for African cichlids)
5. What's a good number of cichlids to start with for a 70G tank? A friend of mine told me the fish die fairly regularly, which could be traumatic for my 4 year old. I'm fine slowly phasing them in until water stabilizes, if that's recommended and will reduce fatalities.
6. Can someone please translate the full species names into a shortlist of abbreviated names (eg, "multis" and "cyps"...ugh)! I've been trying to read some of these threads and am guessing at the short names, but would love to see the top dozen or so short names next to their full names.
7. Is it really a problem to put the heater right in the tank? I've read the fish go after it sometimes?
8. What are 2-3 safe, starter cichlids that are hearty enough to survive my first go at this? Is an Oscar really an awesome cichlid or is that just hype?
9. I read mixed things on whether or not it's OK to mix African and other regional cichlids? Is the safe bet to only get cichlids from one geography?
10. What's the old/new debate alluded to in some of these threads?

Help me master the art of the cichlid.

boobaloos

 

[dogofwar]

Well done, Sir! And Welcome...

Here are my thoughts:

1. How long should I wait after filling the tank? Is 3 days OK? I added the dechlorinator and the filter is running smoothly.
If the heater is plugged in and the tank is warm (74-80 degrees or so), then you're good to go. The tank will need to "cycle" (which means that beneficial bacteria will need to get established). You can do this by getting some gravel, filter media, etc. from someone with an established tank (my preferred method), allowing the process to take place in your tank from scratch (about 2-3 weeks or so) and/or buying some "cycle" bacteria at your fish store (I'm less experienced with this).

2. Do cichlids like the little bubble makers? Yes - it aerates the water

3. Do I need to boil any rocks or flower pots that I put in the tank? Not unless they came from a naturtal waterway or other source that could have pathogens. I just rinse flowepots and rocks that I get at the landscape store

4. Do you recommend putting sand in, or just pebbles and rocks? (for African cichlids)
I prefer pool filter sand (course sand) - available (wait for it) at the pool store

5. What's a good number of cichlids to start with for a 70G tank? A friend of mine told me the fish die fairly regularly, which could be traumatic for my 4 year old. I'm fine slowly phasing them in until water stabilizes, if that's recommended and will reduce fatalities.

There are a couple of factors here: successfully cycling the tank and aggression. You don't want to add too many fish at once to a non-cycled tank. I'd start with half a dozen or so smaller ones for a 70g...keep them for about a month (have your fish store confirm that you're cycled) and then get more. I'd also start with less aggressive species like peacocks or yellow labs vs. psycho killers like auratus, kenyi, or others...so that when you add more fish they'll be less likely to be killed. Malawi african cichlids - especially mbuna or rock fish - spread aggression better with dense stocking. While this creates more water (and more need for filtration, water changes), heavy stocking spreads the aggression.

6. Can someone please translate the full species names into a shortlist of abbreviated names (eg, "multis" and "cyps"...ugh)! I've been trying to read some of these threads and am guessing at the short names, but would love to see the top dozen or so short names next to their full names.
I'd stick to Lake Malawi and go with either:
mbuna (rock fish) like Yellow Labs (Labidochromis) and friends or
Peacocks (Aulonocara sp.) and milder Haplochromines. Cichlid-forum has good cichlid profiles. Unfortunately most fish are known primarily by their Latin names. Come to a few meetings (or get a book or two) and you'll know what's up pretty soon!


7. Is it really a problem to put the heater right in the tank? I've read the fish go after it sometimes? No - just put it in the tank (submersible ones that is), allow it to sit for a few minutes, adjust the temp to the desired level and turn it on. It should turn on and off to regulate the temp. If it sticks on or is a "Stealth" brand heater, get a new one.

8. What are 2-3 safe, starter cichlids that are hearty enough to survive my first go at this? Is an Oscar really an awesome cichlid or is that just hype? Oscars are South American cichlids...really different from what you saw in the TV show. Awesome in their own way but I'd wait until you have a bigger tank for oscars. I'd go with some of the milder Malawi cichlids.

9. I read mixed things on whether or not it's OK to mix African and other regional cichlids? Is the safe bet to only get cichlids from one geography? It's best to stick with one Lake (e.g. Malawi) and - my experience - to not mix mbuna and Haps/peacocks. It's also better not to mix new and old world. Of course many of us do...but we've been keeping them long enough to know what we can get away with (temporarily and for a long time)

10. What's the old/new debate alluded to in some of these threads? It's a friendly debate between those of us who like old world (i.e. African) cichlids and those of us who like new world (i.e. Central and South American ones). I've kept both over the years...and both have their charms. There are probably more old world keepers in the club than new world ones...so you have a rich bounty of sources of fish for your tank from club members, auctions, etc.

Please post pictures of your tank, filter set-up, etc. and I'm sure that folks will help you out.

Also, feel free to post stocking ideas / questions when you get some ideas. Club members will let you know what will work / what won't.

It would also be great for you and your daughter to attend the ACA convention (www.ccadoesaca.com) and - after the summer - monthly CCA meetings. I bring my soon-to-be-6-year old daughter and she has lots of fun!

Good luck,
Matt

 

[mdlnewman]

+1 what Matt said.

What kind of filter did you get with the tank you didn't say?

And welcome to the mania.

 

[mchambers]

Bacteria

Well done, Sir! And Welcome...

Here are my thoughts:

1. How long should I wait after filling the tank? Is 3 days OK? I added the dechlorinator and the filter is running smoothly.
If the heater is plugged in and the tank is warm (74-80 degrees or so), then you're good to go. The tank will need to "cycle" (which means that beneficial bacteria will need to get established). You can do this by getting some gravel, filter media, etc. from someone with an established tank (my preferred method), allowing the process to take place in your tank from scratch (about 2-3 weeks or so) and/or buying some "cycle" bacteria at your fish store (I'm less experienced with this).

Cycling is the most important point. I traumatized my daughter by not cycling a few years back. Luckily, she was about 10, not 4.

I'm very skeptical about the bacteria you buy at the store. The only ones that don't clearly seem to be snake oil are Dr. Tim's One and Only and Seachem Stability.

 

[Leffler817]

Welcome to the CCA and the awesomeness of keeping cichlids! :happy0180: You'll have MTS (multiple tank symdrome) in no time.

 

[Tony]

Welcome aboard, Jeff. There's a bunch of friendly and knowledgable folks on this site. You came to the right place.

Matt summarized things quite well. One thing I'd like to add would be the distinction between Tanganyikan and Malawi cichlids (both African "Rift Lake" fish).

Malawi cichlids are generally preferred for the beginner. The are more colorful, more hardy and *generally* less aggressive. They are also more commonly available (ie: cheaper) and easier to throw in one of these, one of those in your setup (generally referred to as "all male") as opposed to a setup containing both males and females of a few different species (which is almost required in a Tang tank).

Tanganyikan cichlids, while generally less colorful stand out because of their behavior in groups. You will have limited success adding 1-2 random fish here and there. The tank must be well planned out and you must stick with the plan. Though it can be extremely rewarding if you do it right.

In each of these setups, there are many different cookie-cutters that will work out well. All male Malawi haps/peacocks, breeding groups of the same, breeding groups of mbuna. For Tangs, shellies/rock dwellers/open water fish or herbivores (tropheus, gobies) or frontosa. I wouldn't recommend the last two for a new fish keeper though.... trophs are expensive and very finicky and frontosa need a 6' long tank (and will be only frontosa).

Like Matt suggested, check out some member's tanks as well as fish profiles on Cichlid Forum for specifics.

If you're looking for an easy first African tank, I'd lean towards Lake Malawi with either groups of mbuna or single male haps/peacocks.

The Tang tank will be a bit more challenging, but definitely doable with some help from folks on this forum.

Cheers.
Tony

 

[mscichlid]

Good job guys!

 

[Hawkman2000]

Jeff, I have heard good things about roofing granuals being used as substait. I haven't tryed it yet but I will on my next tank. Their are many colorsa available.

I use Seachem Stabitlity biological additive to start and maintain my cycle. With your size tank, I would say add 4 - 6 cap fulls daily for 3 days, then 1 cap full with every 5 gallons of water you change.

By the way, Seachem Prime is the best dechlorinator ever.

Also, malawis need a Ph of 7.8, Seachem makes a Ph regulator specificaly for malawis. They also make Malawi salt and Cichlid trace. The trace works best when added to R/O water when doing water changes.

As far as boiling stuff, I boil everything before adding it to my tanks. Just to be safe.

As far as stocking goes, it depends on the species and filtration.

I am a new world guy myself, but I have seen many AWSOME malawi tanks. I plan on setting one up in the future again. My last one was only 29 gallons. The last malawi died last year at 8 years old.

Oh yah, one more thing. One day you will come home and the room where the tank is, or even the whole house, will smell REALLY bad. That is the first cycle stage, its amonia. When its gone, you've got a cycled tank. At least in the experience of my friends and I.

Good luck, and post pictures for us.

 

[Hawkman2000]

By the way, I saw the episode you are talking about. It was very cool.

 

[boobaloos]

This is incredibly helpful! Thank you, everyone and to those who provided great detail. To answer a few questions and add a few comments:
- I am using a Fluval 305 filter. Do you like? I was thinking about adding another filter as well, something above water that provides more oxygenation. Thoughts on adding a second filter and, if so, which one?
- Just so I understand, do you all recommend that I buy all males? Why? I'd rather not have a sausage party in my living room if I can avoid it
- I don't understand the comment about roofing granuals as "substait"...Do you mean "substrate"? Please expand.
- I thought I was supposed to buy biological material to add to my Fluval 305 rack system (6 chambers, maybe dedicating 1 to bio?) I could definitely use some guidance on this topic.
- I added Seachem Prime and a full bottle of Tetra SafeStart. Do you think that will be enough to "cycle" my tank so I can start buying fish? Or am I hearing that I may need to wait an additional 2-3 weeks (bummer!) ?

 

[Tony]

I would wait a bit longer to be safe.

If you were to add another supplementary filter, I'd go with an Aquaclear 70 or 110 hang-on-the-back filter. Superior mechanical filtration, easy to change. lots of flow. Filter of choice for the majority of experienced keepers.

In terms of picking stock for you tank. What do you want?

Do you want a few species with males and females with some potential breeding? If so, you're going to want to do either mbuna or small haps/peacocks or non-herbivorous Tangs. 3-4 species max. Possible less colorful, but more behavior.

Do you want max color/ease/ability to add new fish/"Wow factor?" Then go with the Malawi sausage party. (probably 50% of the Malawi tanks out there are sausage partied FYI).

 

[Hawkman2000]

- I don't understand the comment about roofing granuals as "substait"...Do you mean "substrate"? Please expand.
?

Sorry, substrate, lol. There was a previous thread about that on this site. It sounded like a really good idea. some of the roofing granuals out there would look good in an aquarium.

Safe start is ok. Used it once, took 12 days for complete cycle. Seachem Stability only took 4 days. Stability has de-nitrifying bacteria to convert nitrates into nitrogen.

Never used a canister filter myself, but I have heard that using seachem matrix as the bio media works great. I use it in my power filters with great results.

Just remember the filtration order. I was always told it should be Mechanical (ex. floss), Chemical (ex. carbon), Biological. Has worked out for me.

 

[dogofwar]

I agree that adding a HOB filter like an Aquaclear would be a great partner to the canister. Bigger is better.

For your canister, there are all sorts of bio materials that you can use. Bio balls are most common but there a million choices. I use plastic scrubbies, plastic Army men, bio balls...basically anything one which one can culture bacteria.

An alternative to the "all male" tank to select maybe 3 distinctly different species and get groups of them for your tank. Most Malawi fish are harem breeders (i.e. a couple of males and a bunch of females). You want to choose fish that won't likely interbreed.

The substrate (pool filter sand or gravel) and decorations (rocks) are the easy part. You can start with a few fish (part of one of your groups) right away (when things are set up)...you just don't want to add a bunch more until there's enough bacteria to support the greater waste load (i.e. the tank's cycled).

For the bio material, fish, filter, etc. check in the marketplace (or make a post about what you need) and I'd bet that someone in the club has extras available for a lot less than a store...

Good stuff!
Matt

 

[mdlnewman]

Oh noone has mentioned crushed coral substrate. It will keep the PH up where the Africans like it.

If you add an power filter I would use more bio and less/no chemical in the canister. If you stick with just the 305 use equal parts 2 each.

 

[Hawkman2000]

Question - Wouldn't it be easier to maintain if one was to use a canister for primarily mechanical and biological and th HOB for chemical. The HOB would be easier to change out the carbon. I would prob. just get another canister. Use one for mech./bio and the other for mech./chem. that way all filtration would be hidden below and more quiet. Then just use a couple of power heads in the tank for circulation. I also like to jam an airstone into a rock pile to add aeration and movement.

Check it out, might give you some ideas -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=386nrevSffY&feature=channel_video_title

Plastic army men, LOL, thats awesome dude.

I like the idea of mixing the sexes of dissimilar species. However, I think that watching the mating rituals and the the spawn cycles is the most entertaining part. I would prob. match pairs of 3 dissimilar species and watch the what happens.

 

[Hawkman2000]

Here's your substrate dude -

http://www.capitalcichlids.org/forums/showthread.php?t=10185

 

[jonclark96]

I wouldn't worry about chemical filtration. Too much expense for little results. I would only use it if trying to remove medications from a tank. I don't run any chemical filtration on any of my tanks.

 

[mscichlid]

Who still uses carbon in their filter other than for removing medication? It is truly is a waste of money to be used for anything other than that.

 

[mscichlid]

Oh, I forgot to add 'in my humble opinion;

 

[Travis]

carbon???