New World or Old Word - That is the question

[nikonf]

Hello,
This is my first post and I am also new to this fascinating hobby.
I currently have 3 Mbuna cichlids and have already lost 1 because one of the fish is extremely aggressive. He killed a new tank mate in less than 6 hours. He goes after all the fish - even the larger one which is quite similar to him.
I have these fish in a 10 gallon tank and I am going to purchase a 55 gallon tank with a Fluval or Eheim canister filter capable of handling an 80-90 gallon tank.
Are these fish always this aggressive? Are the South American fish as vicious?
I also like the Green Terror, Fire-mouth and exotic cichlids from Uruguay (Although I have only seen photos of these on the web).
Would you stay with the Africans in the 55 gallon or try some SA cichlids?
Any help is greatly appreciated.
Thanks very much,
Mike

 

[verbal]

If you want to go with African cichlids, I would start with yellow labs. I have never owned them, but I have heard good things about them. They have the bright colors of mbuna, but are far less aggressive than most. They also breed fairly easily.

I have generally had the best experience with cichlids starting with a group of about 6 young fish and growing them out. Another way to start out is to get a breeding group of adults at a fish club auction.

 

[fischfan13]

Mbuna do well when over-crowded.

First and foremost, over-filtrating and water changes.

Having three fish in a 10 gallon is a bad experiment, and no matter what type of Cichlid you did this with you had a good chance of failure...or in your case death.
Pick out a few groups of Mbuna...maybe three or four.
Buy juveniles...better chance they will accept each other.
Pick colors that do not match. For instance, don't pick out two different species that look similar.
Grab about 6 of each fish.

Here's a good cookie-cutter for a 55 gallon...
6 Yellow labs
6 Cynotilapia White Top Hara
6 Iodotropheus sprengerae (Rusties)
6 Labeotropheus Trewavasae or Fuelleborni

 

[Chicklid]

I also say that overcrowding the aggressive fish would be a lot better, so don't give up already. If the tank is crowded one particular fish won't be bullied to death since he can get lost in the crowd. You might also want to add a lot of rocks and other things the fish can use to hide in. The like their territory.

I don't have a lot of South Americans, but I do have 3 severums that get along just fine. I've never had a problem with agression with them, though there are plenty of South Americans that ARE aggressive (eg Jack Dempseys). Careful planning usually does the trick.

Good Luck!

 

[mscichlid]

Welcome to the forum! Aggression comes with many species of cichlids. We'll help you. Once you decide which fish you like the most, that's where the research begins.

 

[UNCLERUCKUS]

I AGREE WITH FRAN. DECIDE WHAT YOU LIKE AND MAKE A LIST. READ UP ON YOUR FAVORITES AND COMPATIBILITY WITH EACH OTHER. ITS IMPORTANT THAT WHATEVER YOU DECIDE TO GO WITH THAT YOU PUT ROCKS, DRIFTWOOD OR DECOR TO BLOCK DIRECT LINE OF SIGHT ALONG WITH PLENTY OF HIDING PLACES. YOU CAN OVERSTOCK WITH AFRICANS AS IT WILL HELP EASE AGGRESSION. I WOULD HOWEVER THINK OF A LARGER TANK IN YOUR FUTURE. ESPECIALLY IF YOU WANT TO GO SA\CA AS THESE ARE ALSO AGGRESSIVE AND TEND TO GROW QUITE A BIT LARGER THEN AFRICANS DEPENDING ON SPECIES. I'VE DONE BOTH SO ID BE HAPPY TO HELP YOU ANY WAY I CAN.

 

[danger_chicken]

Welcome to the forum and hobby. You're off to a good start by posting here. Ask questions and take your time. The biggest problem you are going to have is you're going to want one of everything. There are so many cool and interesting fish. Post on the forum and come to meetings and you'll have access to fish that you can't get at petsmart.

 

[Spine]

Welcome to the forum. I'm New World bias,lol. Put together a list of stuff you like and we'll be happy to give you some advice.

 

[Avatar]

Foolish mortal, you are forever and irretrievably lost.

Hello,
This is my first post and I am also new to this fascinating hobby.
I currently have 3 Mbuna cichlids and have already lost 1 because one of the fish is extremely aggressive. He killed a new tank mate in less than 6 hours. He goes after all the fish - even the larger one which is quite similar to him.
I have these fish in a 10 gallon tank and I am going to purchase a 55 gallon tank with a Fluval or Eheim canister filter capable of handling an 80-90 gallon tank. Mike

Clever lad, choosing to invest in a hobby where a simple power outage or appliance failure can wipe out an investment of hundreds or even thousands of dollars. You like all here are doomed. Stamps and coins are nearly as pretty, and though they may not shimmer or sparkle like Tangs and Apistos, dance like crayfish or rumba like Corydoras, neither will they bend you to their bubbling insidious will, break your heart or one day transit out of your life vis a vis the municipal water treatment system. No, rather stamps and coins will accrue value over time, being legitimate rather than literal liquid assets. Small matter than a philatelic album or numismatic collection cannot approach a rift tank's Zen-like simplicity or a planted one's verdant bounty, so soothe a tormented soul, or remotely approximate the thrill (albeit vicarious) of a first spawning, they will instead survive you as heirlooms rather than merely accompany you for a brief part of your own fleeting Earthbound journey. So before you venture further down this dubious path, consider: will you choose to amass a small if somewhat lifeless fortune that can provide your heirs (whom are likely to be as foolish as thee) with a down-payment on whatever capricious fantasy strikes their fancy subsequent to your demise, or will you instead throw it all away on such immediate and pronounced gratification as will come and the associated despair you have already experienced in losing the first of many captives whose lives will be even briefer than your own?

By the way, there are plenty of mild-mannered New World cichlids (including discus and angelfish) that can be reared in communities, especially if they grow up together. Not that I would ever recommend keeping any fish to anyone. Have you considered one of those aquatic screen-savers? Or a dog? Cichlids won't fetch squat and are absolutely impossible to house-break.

"As in life and the planetary ecosystem, dynamic equilibrium is the ideal."
— Freshwater Paradigms, Chapter XV, Volume I, Encyclopedia Aquatica

 

[fischfan13]

Coins are a lousy investment, sit in a book or coin holder and have to be kept away from the sun.
Go with the fish. We are all (well, almost all) here to help and support you...and maybe even buy some of your fry from you one day!

 

[danger_chicken]

...Cichlids won't fetch squat and are absolutely impossible to house-break.

this just isn't ture. I play fetch everyday with my new worlds (they are smarter than old world) They fetch pellets, they fetch feeders, they fetch worms, they fetch crickets; sometimes they bring them back and spit them at me (especially the pellets if they feel they deserve a feeder). As far as house broken, I like to think of them as litter trained since they always go in the same box and never on the floor. They also wag their tails when I come home.

 

[minifoot77]

this just isn't ture. I play fetch everyday with my new worlds (they are smarter than old world) They fetch pellets, they fetch feeders, they fetch worms, they fetch crickets; sometimes they bring them back and spit them at me (especially the pellets if they feel they deserve a feeder). As far as house broken, I like to think of them as litter trained since they always go in the same box and never on the floor. They also wag their tails when I come home.

they can even be taught to jump (this is still not a good idea mike )

 

[danger_chicken]

oh yeah I forgot about that trick. I've been trying to unteach it.

 

[Tony]

Clever lad, choosing to invest in a hobby where a simple power outage or appliance failure can wipe out an investment of hundreds or even thousands of dollars. You like all here are doomed. Stamps and coins are nearly as pretty, and though they may not shimmer or sparkle like Tangs and Apistos, dance like crayfish or rumba like Corydoras, neither will they bend you to their bubbling insidious will, break your heart or one day transit out of your life vis a vis the municipal water treatment system. No, rather stamps and coins will accrue value over time, being legitimate rather than literal liquid assets. Small matter than a philatelic album or numismatic collection cannot approach a rift tank's Zen-like simplicity or a planted one's verdant bounty, so soothe a tormented soul, or remotely approximate the thrill (albeit vicarious) of a first spawning, they will instead survive you as heirlooms rather than merely accompany you for a brief part of your own fleeting Earthbound journey. So before you venture further down this dubious path, consider: will you choose to amass a small if somewhat lifeless fortune that can provide your heirs (whom are likely to be as foolish as thee) with a down-payment on whatever capricious fantasy strikes their fancy subsequent to your demise, or will you instead throw it all away on such immediate and pronounced gratification as will come and the associated despair you have already experienced in losing the first of many captives whose lives will be even briefer than your own?

By the way, there are plenty of mild-mannered New World cichlids (including discus and angelfish) that can be reared in communities, especially if they grow up together. Not that I would ever recommend keeping any fish to anyone. Have you considered one of those aquatic screen-savers? Or a dog? Cichlids won't fetch squat and are absolutely impossible to house-break.

"As in life and the planetary ecosystem, dynamic equilibrium is the ideal."
— Freshwater Paradigms, Chapter XV, Volume I, Encyclopedia Aquatica

wow.

 

[UNCLERUCKUS]

Originally Posted by Avatar
Clever lad, choosing to invest in a hobby where a simple power outage or appliance failure can wipe out an investment of hundreds or even thousands of dollars. You like all here are doomed. Stamps and coins are nearly as pretty, and though they may not shimmer or sparkle like Tangs and Apistos, dance like crayfish or rumba like Corydoras, neither will they bend you to their bubbling insidious will, break your heart or one day transit out of your life vis a vis the municipal water treatment system. No, rather stamps and coins will accrue value over time, being legitimate rather than literal liquid assets. Small matter than a philatelic album or numismatic collection cannot approach a rift tank's Zen-like simplicity or a planted one's verdant bounty, so soothe a tormented soul, or remotely approximate the thrill (albeit vicarious) of a first spawning, they will instead survive you as heirlooms rather than merely accompany you for a brief part of your own fleeting Earthbound journey. So before you venture further down this dubious path, consider: will you choose to amass a small if somewhat lifeless fortune that can provide your heirs (whom are likely to be as foolish as thee) with a down-payment on whatever capricious fantasy strikes their fancy subsequent to your demise, or will you instead throw it all away on such immediate and pronounced gratification as will come and the associated despair you have already experienced in losing the first of many captives whose lives will be even briefer than your own?

By the way, there are plenty of mild-mannered New World cichlids (including discus and angelfish) that can be reared in communities, especially if they grow up together. Not that I would ever recommend keeping any fish to anyone. Have you considered one of those aquatic screen-savers? Or a dog? Cichlids won't fetch squat and are absolutely impossible to house-break.

"As in life and the planetary ecosystem, dynamic equilibrium is the ideal."
— Freshwater Paradigms, Chapter XV, Volume I, Encyclopedia Aquatica

WHO WANTS TO COME OVER AND LOOK AT STAMPS/COINS BESIDES STEVEN ERKEL LOL....I DONT GET UP AND WALK A DOG. NO LITTER BOX CHANGES......I CAN DO A WEEK OR 2 WEEK VACATION I DONT NEED A PET SITTER OR FEED THEM EITHER HEHE. YOU GOTTA LOVE WHEN YA FISH SWIM UP WAGGING WHEN THEY SEE YOU.

 

[fischfan13]

Just a short demonstration...

Which excites you more?
A)

B)

 

[Airborne001]

If you can get it Lava rock is great for Mbuna becuase you can put a LOT of it in a tank withing adding as much weight as normal stone.

 

[Ophelia77]

WHO WANTS TO COME OVER AND LOOK AT STAMPS/COINS BESIDES STEVEN ERKEL LOL....I DONT GET UP AND WALK A DOG. NO LITTER BOX CHANGES......I CAN DO A WEEK OR 2 WEEK VACATION I DONT NEED A PET SITTER OR FEED THEM EITHER HEHE. YOU GOTTA LOVE WHEN YA FISH SWIM UP WAGGING WHEN THEY SEE YOU.[/QUOTE]

I think I'll keep mine even less maintenance...

 

[Avatar]

Just a short demonstration...

Which excites you more?
A)

B)

As flat electronic images would have to say neither, though the wheat awns are intriguing, as is the pile of rocks. The question itself indicates that some humor, however thinly veiled, is indeed (and perhaps not the only thing) wasted.

"Creative dominion is thine."
Freshwater Paradigms, Chapter 1, Volume I, Encyclopedia Aquatica