Vieja man
Members
Male 7"
Female 6"
Female 6"
jonclark96
Past CCA President
Awesome fish. You don't see adults around that often. Good job!
Tony
Alligator Snapping Turtle/Past Pres
Gorgeous fish for sure! I have two little guys right now and am getting a couple more from Drew on Saturday.
How long do they take to get ginormous?
How long do they take to get ginormous?
festaedan
potamotrygon fan
That pair is stunning. I used to have a male that I got from Rapps.
blkmjk
Members
I think it takes a while. I've have a pair that was 5" and 3" they are 7+"and 5" now. 1/8" per month would feel about right. Had them right at 9 months give or take. Awesome fish as always Bill.
Drew
Vieja man
Members
Thanks guys. yes they are slow growers but they can be some beautiful fish.
Andrewtfw
Global Moderators
They look great! Any spawning yet?
tparker
Members
Nice pair bruh. Great strain. Real STUNNERS!!!
festaedan
potamotrygon fan
Nice fish! Both are stunning.
Vieja man
Members
thats the big brother of mine
Vieja man
Members
they have spawned once but they ate them
blkmjk
Members
Ok you two... No need to make me jealous! Awesome Vieja its the only one I keep now.
Drew
Drew
Tony
Alligator Snapping Turtle/Past Pres
Vieja/Paratheraps/Paraneetropolis?
Is there any rhyme or reason here?
Is there any rhyme or reason here?
blkmjk
Members
Absolutely not....
Drew
Drew
dogofwar
CCA Members
From CRC:
The genus Paratheraps was erected for the new species P. brehidori by Uwe Werner and Rainer Stawikowski in 1987 to group some species then belonging to the Theraps section of the Cichlasoma genus. Cichlasoma had been restricted by Sven Kullander in 1983 (Kullander, 1983) to some South American species closely related to the type species, Cichlasoma bimaculatum. Paratheraps groups some Mexican, Guatemala, Belize and El Salvador cichlid species with a deep and compressed body, a rounded head and a black longitudinal bar running from the base of the pectoral to the base of the caudal fin in the middle of the caudal peduncle, among other traits.
Paratheraps was subsequently placed in synonymy of Vieja by Robert Allgayer (1991) arguing that the new genus complied with the meristic limits given for Vieja maculicauda Fernandez-Yepez, 1969. Most later authors have followed Allgayer’s view. According to Fernandez Yépez, Vieja (which in Spanish means old woman) refers the name given to cichlids in some parts of Central America, because of the close attachment of females to their fry.
Werner and Stawikowski, however, made an omission in their description in naming the type species for their genus. Although they described Paratheraps brehidori, they did not designated it as the type species for their genus, and so the description, not complying with the guidelines of the International Commission On Zoological Nomenclature (Article 13c), was declared invalid by most persons working with Cichlid taxonomy. The mistake was fixed in 1989, when Werner and Stawikowski republished the description designating Paratheraps brehidori as the type species of their genus.
This problem arose because according to the ICZN code, for a described species in a new genus to be considered type species, it must be either named so or be the only species (and a new one) treated in the paper. In Werner and Stawikowski's paper, two species are considered: P. brehidori and P. hartwegi Taylor & Miller 1980, so a type species should had been designated.
From the Appendix A of the Genera of Recent Fishes book by William N. Eschmeyer, published in 1990 by the California Academy of Sciences, I have extracted the following quote; "Werner and Stawikowski (1987) described the new genus Paratheraps for P. breidohri "gen. nov., spec. nov." They also included the species P. hartwegi (Taylor and Miller 1980). Does this establish a type species? The first part of Art. 13c (ICZN) states, "The combined description or definition of a new nominal genus and a single included new nominal species, if marked by..." What does the expression "single included new nominal species" mean? In the example of Paratheraps, the new taxon contains a single new nominal species (it also contains a second species that is not new). I interpret the Article to mean that there must be only one included species and it must be a new species (along with use of the appropriate expression). So, Paratheraps cannot date to 1987, but can date to the same authors in 1989 where a type was designated".
The name Paratheraps is then available for use, and although Robert Allgayer (1991) considers the diagnostic traits of Paratheraps overlapping with those found in the very vague description of Vieja by Agustin Fernandez-Yépez (1969), the fact is that the grouping exists and posses some diagnostic traits; as the longitudinal black band on the flanks in Paratheraps (vs. a vertical bar in V. maculicauda), the absence of the large black blotch on the caudal peduncle found in V. maculicauda and a larger mouth than in Vieja maculicauda. A DNA gene comparison (e.g. Concheiro et al, 2006) has also shown the grouping for Paratheraps (with the particular exception of P. synspilus & P. melanurus. For P. synspilus however, aquarium specimens of indeterminate origin were used). So, given the common traits of P. synspilus with the rest of the species of Paratheraps and until more evidence for the opposite becomes available, I consider Paratheraps as a valid genus.
Although clear limits for Paratheraps have not been established, we can expect it to group the species: fenestratus Günther 1860, from the Papaloapan river basin, melanurus Gunther 1862, from lake Peten, bifasciatus Steindachner 1864, from the lower Grijalva and the Usumacinta, Chompan and Candelaria river systems, guttulatus Gunther 1864, from Guatemala and El Salvador, zonatus Meek 1905, from the pacific slope of México south of the isthmus of Tehuantepec, synspilus Hubbs 1935 (probably in synonymy of P. melanurus), from the Champoton river system, the eastern Yucatán sink holes (cenotes) and lagoons, the upper Rio Usumacinta and the Hondo, New, Belize and Siboon rivers in Belize, hartwegi Taylor & Miller 1980, breidohri Werner & Stawikowski 1987, both species from the upper Grijalva river basin and a potentially undescribed species from Rio Coatzacoalcos system, sp. 'coatzacoalcos'.
The genus Paratheraps was erected for the new species P. brehidori by Uwe Werner and Rainer Stawikowski in 1987 to group some species then belonging to the Theraps section of the Cichlasoma genus. Cichlasoma had been restricted by Sven Kullander in 1983 (Kullander, 1983) to some South American species closely related to the type species, Cichlasoma bimaculatum. Paratheraps groups some Mexican, Guatemala, Belize and El Salvador cichlid species with a deep and compressed body, a rounded head and a black longitudinal bar running from the base of the pectoral to the base of the caudal fin in the middle of the caudal peduncle, among other traits.
Paratheraps was subsequently placed in synonymy of Vieja by Robert Allgayer (1991) arguing that the new genus complied with the meristic limits given for Vieja maculicauda Fernandez-Yepez, 1969. Most later authors have followed Allgayer’s view. According to Fernandez Yépez, Vieja (which in Spanish means old woman) refers the name given to cichlids in some parts of Central America, because of the close attachment of females to their fry.
Werner and Stawikowski, however, made an omission in their description in naming the type species for their genus. Although they described Paratheraps brehidori, they did not designated it as the type species for their genus, and so the description, not complying with the guidelines of the International Commission On Zoological Nomenclature (Article 13c), was declared invalid by most persons working with Cichlid taxonomy. The mistake was fixed in 1989, when Werner and Stawikowski republished the description designating Paratheraps brehidori as the type species of their genus.
This problem arose because according to the ICZN code, for a described species in a new genus to be considered type species, it must be either named so or be the only species (and a new one) treated in the paper. In Werner and Stawikowski's paper, two species are considered: P. brehidori and P. hartwegi Taylor & Miller 1980, so a type species should had been designated.
From the Appendix A of the Genera of Recent Fishes book by William N. Eschmeyer, published in 1990 by the California Academy of Sciences, I have extracted the following quote; "Werner and Stawikowski (1987) described the new genus Paratheraps for P. breidohri "gen. nov., spec. nov." They also included the species P. hartwegi (Taylor and Miller 1980). Does this establish a type species? The first part of Art. 13c (ICZN) states, "The combined description or definition of a new nominal genus and a single included new nominal species, if marked by..." What does the expression "single included new nominal species" mean? In the example of Paratheraps, the new taxon contains a single new nominal species (it also contains a second species that is not new). I interpret the Article to mean that there must be only one included species and it must be a new species (along with use of the appropriate expression). So, Paratheraps cannot date to 1987, but can date to the same authors in 1989 where a type was designated".
The name Paratheraps is then available for use, and although Robert Allgayer (1991) considers the diagnostic traits of Paratheraps overlapping with those found in the very vague description of Vieja by Agustin Fernandez-Yépez (1969), the fact is that the grouping exists and posses some diagnostic traits; as the longitudinal black band on the flanks in Paratheraps (vs. a vertical bar in V. maculicauda), the absence of the large black blotch on the caudal peduncle found in V. maculicauda and a larger mouth than in Vieja maculicauda. A DNA gene comparison (e.g. Concheiro et al, 2006) has also shown the grouping for Paratheraps (with the particular exception of P. synspilus & P. melanurus. For P. synspilus however, aquarium specimens of indeterminate origin were used). So, given the common traits of P. synspilus with the rest of the species of Paratheraps and until more evidence for the opposite becomes available, I consider Paratheraps as a valid genus.
Although clear limits for Paratheraps have not been established, we can expect it to group the species: fenestratus Günther 1860, from the Papaloapan river basin, melanurus Gunther 1862, from lake Peten, bifasciatus Steindachner 1864, from the lower Grijalva and the Usumacinta, Chompan and Candelaria river systems, guttulatus Gunther 1864, from Guatemala and El Salvador, zonatus Meek 1905, from the pacific slope of México south of the isthmus of Tehuantepec, synspilus Hubbs 1935 (probably in synonymy of P. melanurus), from the Champoton river system, the eastern Yucatán sink holes (cenotes) and lagoons, the upper Rio Usumacinta and the Hondo, New, Belize and Siboon rivers in Belize, hartwegi Taylor & Miller 1980, breidohri Werner & Stawikowski 1987, both species from the upper Grijalva river basin and a potentially undescribed species from Rio Coatzacoalcos system, sp. 'coatzacoalcos'.
spazmattik
Members
Deleted video - Funny, but want to keep this family friendly - Jon
Last edited by a moderator:
blkmjk
Members
My head hurts.... But I like it.
Drew
Drew
Vieja man
Members
WOW!!!!
