Looking for some info on these 2. Wondering about temper, size, how they coexist with each other, others of their kind, or other fish. How hard are each to keep? I know theres some people that have kept them in "croweded" tanks, even with other fish such as Africans. I know theres always exceptions to fish. How they grew up, who their tank mates are, feeding, etc. I ask about these 2 because from what i have seen they look similar. Gt's have a bump on the heads and JD's are more stream line i guess. I heard GT's are generally bigger. However i have seen conflicting information on that. Curious to hear what those of you who have kept them, who know alot about them.
Andrewtfw
Global Moderators
Lost my 7" GT last week to my 6" JD. No issues for weeks. Then the GT was descaled and lifeless.
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jonclark96
Past CCA President
Most of the GT's and JD's I've kept over the years have been middle of the road aggression wise. GT's I have found to be worse with conspecifics rather than other fish. The male GT I have now in my 180 would not tolerate other GT's. Killed 2 and almost did in the 3rd when I was trying to grow out a group to get a pair. Now he's just a lonely male in a community tank.
chriscoli
Administrator
Andrew: How early did you all get your gt and jd?
Jon: same question, how old were yours? Your saying they are worse with convicts? So the gt is doing ok in a communit tank? What types of other fish, and size?
Im finding in my research and actually a little on my own that, when fish are young and grow together they become used to each other. Im also finding that some of my aggressive fish only bother others that could be a threat. Example, my firemouth gets picked on, so i got some feeder minnows and have tried putting 1 in as a target fish. Noone pays it any mind. The minnow may get pecked once or twice but other than that, its left alone. Im wondering if JD's and GT's may be the same.
Jon: same question, how old were yours? Your saying they are worse with convicts? So the gt is doing ok in a communit tank? What types of other fish, and size?
Im finding in my research and actually a little on my own that, when fish are young and grow together they become used to each other. Im also finding that some of my aggressive fish only bother others that could be a threat. Example, my firemouth gets picked on, so i got some feeder minnows and have tried putting 1 in as a target fish. Noone pays it any mind. The minnow may get pecked once or twice but other than that, its left alone. Im wondering if JD's and GT's may be the same.
Andrewtfw
Global Moderators
I got both at 2-3" but they were not housed together until three months ago. Up until the end, they showed no aggression towards each other. Then one friday, the JD had a split dorsal fin. The GT was breathing heavy, had a scraped lip and split tail fins. By monday he was dead. No other fish in the 125 were involved.
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So they were bigger when they met?
You say no other fish were involved. Were any of the others big fish or aggressive fish?
Jeff721
Members
My JDs and GTs grew up together since about 1.5", the green terrors were a little larger than the dempseys at first. No signs of aggression until they were getting sexually mature. I had 2 male GTs, one took a beating not life threatening, just fins split and darkened coloration and eventually that fish went carpet surfing one night, it had been hanging in the top of the tank and I think got spooked. They are definitely more aggressive to conspecifics as Jon said, left everything else in the tank alone.
My Jack Dempseys never bothered each other (both female presumably) but one got double the size of the other. Also, she went on to be the tank bully. Though she didn`t do any damage, or hadn`t yet, she would chase the others in the tank, including the Salvinis that I had. I can`t imagine what a mature male on the prowl would be like.
As for size, biggest Green Terror I`ve seen was 8"-10", biggest Jack Dempsey I`ve seen was 14" or so, they get bigger, but not as "tall".
My Jack Dempseys never bothered each other (both female presumably) but one got double the size of the other. Also, she went on to be the tank bully. Though she didn`t do any damage, or hadn`t yet, she would chase the others in the tank, including the Salvinis that I had. I can`t imagine what a mature male on the prowl would be like.
As for size, biggest Green Terror I`ve seen was 8"-10", biggest Jack Dempsey I`ve seen was 14" or so, they get bigger, but not as "tall".
Andrewtfw
Global Moderators
Yes, they were adults when they met. The only other big fish is an oscar that is about 10". They did not care about it.
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jonclark96
Past CCA President
I purchased a group of 4 GT's from Annandale Super Pets before they went out of business, so must have been a year or two ago. I picked out 2 of the larger ones and 2 of the smaller ones in an attempt to get a pair. They were all around 2"-2.5". I kept them in a 75 with many other NW cichlid grow outs. At first, they showed signs of internal parasites and I lost two right off the bat. Looking back now, it was probably more stress induced than anything. Of the two that survived, both were male and the larger one harassed the smaller relentlessly. At about 4", I moved the aggressor to my 180 gallon tank and left the smaller in the 75. Once the two had separated, the smaller really began to grow and become a beautiful fish. He was fine until I added a group of carpintis to the tank. He did not care for the carpintis at all, so was moved to his own 10 gallon tank for several weeks before I sold him. He was a really nice fish - Richone picked him up at Aquamania. The larger is still in my 180, and is probably pushing 7" at the moment. He is still aggressive, but is not the largest fish in the tank and spars occasionally. My 180 houses the GT, a pair of paratheraps fenestratus catemacos, a grow out group of smaller catamacos, a group of p. melanurus grow outs, my JD's, and a few others. I think that the GT does well only because I have plenty of room in the tank and he isn't the dominant fish. If I put him in a 75 or smaller, he would punk whatever else was in the tank.
With my JD's, I picked up the male from Matt at around 4" when he had his house fire. He's grown steadily up to around 9" in the 180. I added an adult female from Andrewtfw sometime last year. They two we not friendly to start with, but now get along well. If I could only get them to breed...
At the end of the day, I have found these fish (both the GT's and JD's) aren't out and out killers, but will be territorial. Given enough space, they can exist in a community setting.
With my JD's, I picked up the male from Matt at around 4" when he had his house fire. He's grown steadily up to around 9" in the 180. I added an adult female from Andrewtfw sometime last year. They two we not friendly to start with, but now get along well. If I could only get them to breed...
At the end of the day, I have found these fish (both the GT's and JD's) aren't out and out killers, but will be territorial. Given enough space, they can exist in a community setting.
Very interesting. So usually they will only care about each other(conspecifics). So if you were trying to keep them from picking on other fish in your tank, would it be better to have a gt and jd or 2 of either as opposed to having only 1 if either? As in 2 conspecifics will worry about each other instead of other fish in the tank. If only keepin 1, that fish may bully everyone else just because its the big one. Im also still wondering about is when the get sexually mature, is the aggression only in competition of males for a female? So if there were no females for them to compete with there would be no reason for aggression? Or if you had only females.
I looked up conspecifics, i understand that now*
I looked up conspecifics, i understand that now*
jonclark96
Past CCA President
My male GT did not tolerate other GT's, regardless of sex. But this is just my specific fish. Everyone has their own personality. There isn't really a catch all answer.
If you are looking to get a pair (which is typically how I prefer to keep fish), get a group of small juveniles from a good source and grow them up together. You have a good chance of them learning to get along. If you find you have one fish that is ultra dominant, remove it from the mix.
If you are looking to keep a community tank with multiple types of cichlids, the best bet would be to only have a single specimen from each species. It's really up to what you want to keep in the long run.
If you are looking to get a pair (which is typically how I prefer to keep fish), get a group of small juveniles from a good source and grow them up together. You have a good chance of them learning to get along. If you find you have one fish that is ultra dominant, remove it from the mix.
If you are looking to keep a community tank with multiple types of cichlids, the best bet would be to only have a single specimen from each species. It's really up to what you want to keep in the long run.
Prince
The ONE who is The ONE
Glad to see you made a visit. Jon should have some great advice for you.
My male GT didn't tolerate the extra male I had either. I think I sold or gave him away to Jonclarke before he got killed. I have 90g that houses a pair of GT's a pair of Astraloheros sp Red Ceibel and a pair of T.Meekii( firemouths). Before I added the Meekii's the female red Ceibel ran the tank even though she was the smallest. The she kept the female gt which was1.5 times her size in a strawberry pot. When she would flare up at the male GT that was at least twice her size the male red Ceibel would join in and back down the GT. now the male Meekii keeps the female red Ceibel in check and everyone is happy except for the occasional intra-species sparring.
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My male GT didn't tolerate the extra male I had either. I think I sold or gave him away to Jonclarke before he got killed. I have 90g that houses a pair of GT's a pair of Astraloheros sp Red Ceibel and a pair of T.Meekii( firemouths). Before I added the Meekii's the female red Ceibel ran the tank even though she was the smallest. The she kept the female gt which was1.5 times her size in a strawberry pot. When she would flare up at the male GT that was at least twice her size the male red Ceibel would join in and back down the GT. now the male Meekii keeps the female red Ceibel in check and everyone is happy except for the occasional intra-species sparring.
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Im unsure if i want to get a gt. Id like to one day but im now sure just yet. We do have a jd though. I just heard so much conflicting info in doing all my research, that even goes for my cichlid research in general. But the one thing i constantly found was raising then from juveniles with other fish. Our cichlid tank now is all babies, and theres only 1 of each species.
I mainly made this thread to find out more about these interesting fish. Also to clarify and verify some of what ive heard. From what i have read on this forum there seems to be more like minded people, so i would be less likely to get conflicting information. Also people here seem nicer, whereas i saw on some forums that people flame like crazy if someone mixed an africian with an american or 2 africans that "may" not get along. Also those people that are always saying "you need a bigger tank". They make it seem like if you dont have 1000 gallon for each fish your horrible and your aquarium will explode.
I mainly made this thread to find out more about these interesting fish. Also to clarify and verify some of what ive heard. From what i have read on this forum there seems to be more like minded people, so i would be less likely to get conflicting information. Also people here seem nicer, whereas i saw on some forums that people flame like crazy if someone mixed an africian with an american or 2 africans that "may" not get along. Also those people that are always saying "you need a bigger tank". They make it seem like if you dont have 1000 gallon for each fish your horrible and your aquarium will explode.
Andrewtfw
Global Moderators
Right now, I am growing out six true gt (Stalsbergi) with two common gt. All are 2-3". The regular gt are more aggressive towards the Stalsbergi than the other way around.
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Prince
The ONE who is The ONE
Most folks don't mix New Worlds (CA/SA) fish with old worlds (African Cichlids) due to the size disparity, the temperament differences and diet differences. That being said their are old worlds that have similar diets and temperaments to CA/SA. Like Melanochromis Auratus (bumble bee cichlids) and some jewel cichlid variants their are many more. I just can't remember. Most of the old world cichlids you find at PetSmart and Petco can be mixed with New Worlds because of diet alone.
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Wasnt aware there were different kinds of GT's. i assume the common are the ones found in stores like petco, petsart, etc
All our out cichlids came from petsmart, petco, todays pet, and house of tropicals. Everyone recommended omega one food for them. So we have that and my buddy gave me some hikari(spelling) when we had our oscar for a day. (Bought new tank that came with fish, had to give him away sadly). All the cichlids we have right now love the omega one.
All our out cichlids came from petsmart, petco, todays pet, and house of tropicals. Everyone recommended omega one food for them. So we have that and my buddy gave me some hikari(spelling) when we had our oscar for a day. (Bought new tank that came with fish, had to give him away sadly). All the cichlids we have right now love the omega one.
Jeff721
Members
It's not the brand of food, rather the type. African Rift Lake Cichlids tend to be algaevores/herbivores eating the occasional fish or invertebrate; whereas New World Cichlids tend to be carnivores eating the occasional plant.
As for aggression via sexual maturity, mine didn't care if there was a female present or not.
Typically aggression in cichlids is linked to territory. "What's mine is mine, and what's yours is mine too." If a cichlid has established itself in a tank you'd be a fool to add another. Sometimes this can be lessened by rearranging the decor and removing/reintroducing the fish with the new fish into the newly rearranged tank. But if the tank isn't large enough of a footprint one of them will just take over again.
If you ever get a chance, go to the Amazonia exhibit at the National Zoo and spend some time watching the (dovii?) cichlids in the largest tank. You'll see that the pairs often have a specific area that they wander around. If one gets too close they'll flair up, maybe a scuffle will ensue, but ultimately they will just go on their separate ways. Unfortunately most of us can't provide a tank anywhere near this size, but it will maybe give a glimpse at how they treat territories in the "wild".
As for aggression via sexual maturity, mine didn't care if there was a female present or not.
Typically aggression in cichlids is linked to territory. "What's mine is mine, and what's yours is mine too." If a cichlid has established itself in a tank you'd be a fool to add another. Sometimes this can be lessened by rearranging the decor and removing/reintroducing the fish with the new fish into the newly rearranged tank. But if the tank isn't large enough of a footprint one of them will just take over again.
If you ever get a chance, go to the Amazonia exhibit at the National Zoo and spend some time watching the (dovii?) cichlids in the largest tank. You'll see that the pairs often have a specific area that they wander around. If one gets too close they'll flair up, maybe a scuffle will ensue, but ultimately they will just go on their separate ways. Unfortunately most of us can't provide a tank anywhere near this size, but it will maybe give a glimpse at how they treat territories in the "wild".
Prince
The ONE who is The ONE
Jeff clarified my post. It was not so much the sex of the fish or the size but rather the temperament like big dog in a little dogs body attitude that some small dogs have.
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I gotcha. Well noone has established anything in my tank. Some have little spots they like but they seem to rotate hiding spots. The jack likes the highest spot on the driftwood, i guess he likes to see everyone. In fact since i put the the jack in there, hes kept the convict in check and the firemouth doesnt get nearly as much crap.
