How Do You Make Green Water?

[DeeCee]

Hey all,

I need a bit of help here. We have a pair of Cichlasoma Araguaensis (sp?) that are on a breeding rampage, and we need something ultra-small to feed the fry. I'm thinking of making 'green water" but don't know what I need to do to get it. Anyone who knows what I need to do?

This pair has bred several times in the past, but the fry disappear at free-swimming age. I used to blame the parents for eating them, so last time they had fry, I pulled them at the free-swimming stage & put them into a small bare-bottom tank. These fry are TINY. The convict fry that hatched a few days AFTER these guys are already eating NLS Growth pellets, but the cichlisoma Araguaensis are just not able to eat the decapsulated brine powder without it becomming too much of a challange. They're just too dang small. I'm thinking now that maybe the parents weren't eating all the fry, but that maybe the fry were starving as there wasn't anything small enough in the tank to eat. I put a piece of driftwood with algae growth on it in there, and that may have helped this batch survive.

I'm ok on the fry that are now eating the decapsulated brine powder, but - wouldn't you know it- the parents have more wigglers. What I'm thinking of doing is putting some green water in the tank once the egg sacks are gone & seeing if the fry can live on that until they're old enough for the brine powder or live BBS. Any ideas on what I should do?

DC

 

[kaj41354]

For my Green water, I took the water that I had removed duringa water change (the more detrutus the better) and put it in a 5 gallon tank wit a light on it 24 hours. It took about a week for mine to green up. Also, for something that small, have you tried microworms or walterworms? They are easy to culture and I feed them to anything that is too small for BBS.

 

[mscichlid]

You could also go for infusoria. I used a jar filled it with tank water, added a few pieces of lettuce, a snail and put it on top of the fishroom fridge with a 60 watt bulb on it 24/7. If you put a light behind it in a couple of days you will see the little buggers swimming around.

For greenwater, it is a matter of 24/7 lights on a tank that you feed. I'm not too sure of this method because the only time I ever got green water was by accident. Bob Bock has a method I think.

Also check this link out: http://www.well.com/user/debunix/fish/LiveFoodCultures.html
It has other links to check out as well. TheKrib.com is where it all started for me.

HTH

 

[DeeCee]

Oh, great! Thanks guys! Thats some good info. I'll get a small tank started today, I think I have a 5 or 10 gal that's open that I can find room for.
And there's always dirty tank water, and I'll rig a lamp on for it as well. Hopefully I have some lettuce here too. Shoot, it's already gone.
Should I drop air into it?? I'm guessing no heater?

No, I've never tried walterworms, ever. I've used microworms & grindals & live BBS in the past, but don't have any cultures going at all right now.

I think I killed hundreds of the first batch of fry just by not having anything for them small enough to eat. Well, we'll see if I have better luck by getting some green water or infusoria going now. Thanks again!

DC

 

[maddog10]

I can make YELLOW water (snow too). I have spent most of my fishkeeping career trying to avoid GREEN water.

 

[Sonny Disposition]

Hi Donna. To make green water, I have a 5 gallon aquarium sitting on a window sill, with a few variatus platys in it. The tank is at room temperature, roughly 58 degrees in the winter, in the 70s in the summer. The waste from the platys feed the microalgae in the water, producing green water as fast as I can use it.

Sunlight will turn water green faster than electric lights will, especially if it's dirty tank water with a high NH4+ content. Adding a little plant fertilizer wouldn't hurt either.

Having said that, let me just ask you--are you sure that the fry are too small for newly hatched baby brine shrimp. The reason I asked is that when the black banded sunfish first spawned, the fry were smaller than any fry I'd ever seen before. (Not that I'd had a lot of experience with really small fry.) I tried producing green water for them, and squeezed a lot of sponge filters into the tank (sponge filters are a decent source of infusoria). Despite my best efforts, I couldn't get a culture going in time, and I ended up losing the first batch of fry. I mentioned this to Dave Snell, and he said it wouldn't hurt to try the brine shrimp anyway, as even really small fry can find the wherewithall to choke down bbs.

I did just as Dave said: each individual baby shrimp was larger than a baby sunfish's head. Yet somehow, they managed to stretch their jaws, latch onto a shrimp, and swallow it in a couple of tries.

It might be worth trying with your Cichlasoma Araguaiensis. I'm not familiar with this species and have never worked with it.

Did you try finely powdered dry food? Maybe grinding up a little spectrum grow in a mortar and pestel, and feeding that to them?

Hey all,

I need a bit of help here. We have a pair of Cichlasoma Araguaensis (sp?) that are on a breeding rampage, and we need something ultra-small to feed the fry. I'm thinking of making 'green water" but don't know what I need to do to get it. Anyone who knows what I need to do?

This pair has bred several times in the past, but the fry disappear at free-swimming age. I used to blame the parents for eating them, so last time they had fry, I pulled them at the free-swimming stage & put them into a small bare-bottom tank. These fry are TINY. The convict fry that hatched a few days AFTER these guys are already eating NLS Growth pellets, but the cichlisoma Araguaensis are just not able to eat the decapsulated brine powder without it becomming too much of a challange. They're just too dang small. I'm thinking now that maybe the parents weren't eating all the fry, but that maybe the fry were starving as there wasn't anything small enough in the tank to eat. I put a piece of driftwood with algae growth on it in there, and that may have helped this batch survive.

I'm ok on the fry that are now eating the decapsulated brine powder, but - wouldn't you know it- the parents have more wigglers. What I'm thinking of doing is putting some green water in the tank once the egg sacks are gone & seeing if the fry can live on that until they're old enough for the brine powder or live BBS. Any ideas on what I should do?

DC[/b]

 

[DeeCee]

Hi Bob,

Yeah, I actually have a real fine screen/tea strainer thingy and ran NLS flake & Powdered Decapsulated Brine Shrimp in through it - it was just like DUST when I was done with it. That was about all they would eat, yet I STILL ended up losing alot of fry. That's why I decided to try green water or something similar when the next batch loses their egg sacks.

Here are a few quick pix o the wigglers with the parents. The wigglers are the large gray mass to the left of the driftwood base.
There are only about 1/2 of what they had on the last batch, from the looks of it right now. The wigglers should be free-swimming tomorrow.
Sorry about the grunge on the glass -- the parents spaz out every time I get near the tank, and the male actually will come flying out
of the water to bite me whenever I tried to get food down to the last batch of fry! I need to get a turkey baster I guess.

 

[Sonny Disposition]

Donna--so you've seen the fry eat, yet you're still losing fry?

Wow, that is curious.

Some questions:

Have you seen the dead fry (in other words, have you ruled out that the parents aren't eating them, or that they aren't eating each other?)

If you've seen the dead fry, did you soak the powdered food you gave them before you gave it to them? (Maybe the dried food expanded in their stomachs and killed them.)

Another option--decapsulate some brine shrimp eggs yourself. It's super easy. Just hydrate a couple of tablespoons of the cysts in a quarter cup of water for a couple of hours. Add a quarter cup of chlorine bleach (regular, not super). Keep mixing it with an eye dropper or turkey baster until it turns pale orange. Dump it all into a brine shrimp net, rinse, then did the eggs and net into a container of cold tap water. Dump some sodium thiosulfate on top of it. It's hard to say how much dechlorinator to use. A couple of tablespoons. You'll know it's ready when the eggs don't smell like bleach any more. Make sure you have lots of ventilation. Stir the bleach next to a kitchen exhaust fan, so the bleach fumes are drawn out of the house.

Baby fish grow really fast on the decapsulated eggs. In fact, IMO it's superior to baby brine shrimp, because it's mostly yolk, where all the nutrition is.

Store what's left in a plastic container in the refrigerator. They'll keep for a couple of months, at least.

Getting back to the subject of green water--I'm told that it's basically useless unless you add so much that you turn the tank water green.

In fact, that was how I used to raise Elassoma--I'd put a pair or two in a two and a half gallon window sill tank with some java moss and wait for the water to turn green. I fed the parents blackworms, and the fry ate green water, until they got big enough for blackworms.

Hi Bob,

Yeah, I actually have a real fine screen/tea strainer thingy and ran NLS flake & Powdered Decapsulated Brine Shrimp in through it - it was just like DUST when I was done with it. That was about all they would eat, yet I STILL ended up losing alot of fry. That's why I decided to try green water or something similar when the next batch loses their egg sacks.

Here are a few quick pix o the wigglers with the parents. The wigglers are the large gray mass to the left of the driftwood base.
There are only about 1/2 of what they had on the last batch, from the looks of it right now. The wigglers should be free-swimming tomorrow.
Sorry about the grunge on the glass -- the parents spaz out every time I get near the tank, and the male actually will come flying out
of the water to bite me whenever I tried to get food down to the last batch of fry! I need to get a turkey baster I guess.

[

 

[DeeCee]

Hey Bob
Thanks for all the info! Any other fry we have here will eat the decapsulated brine without a problem. Let me be more specific in what I meant in my earlier posts though, so we're both on the same page~

In previous spawnings, I left the fry in with the parents. Shortly after they went free-swimming, all the fry would disappear. I guessed that the parents were eating them. Let's call all those spawnings Batch #1 (or MIA) LOL

In the batch that's growing out now (I think they're about 2 weeks old) I pulled the fry from the parents to see if I could get them raised. That's when I realized how small they really are, and realized that they couldn't get the decapsulated brine shrimp down. I put some mossy driftwood in the tank & kept trying different things (like powdering the flake food or whatever). There's still maybe 50-75 alive from that spawn, which is a drop in the bucket to how many I started with! Lots & lots of dead fry at first. After 2 weeks, the fry are NOW able to eat decapsulated brine. They're still that small! I have convicts that are the same age & are big enough & now eating NLS growth food- they've been off the decap brine for several days. Lets call that Batch #2 or "still kickin' Hee hee!

Batch #3 is the ones in the pictures. That batch is still with the parents, but I'd like to try them on the green water or infusoria or whatever & see if I have better luck & less casualties with it.

I don't know if I was right in thinking that the parents were eating the first batches or not. Maybe there just wasn't enough food that they could eat. I dunno.

DC

 

[SubMariner]

I can make YELLOW water (snow too). I have spent most of my fishkeeping career trying to avoid GREEN water.[/b]

LOL! LOL! That was funny

 

[Sonny Disposition]

If they can't eat decapsulated brine shrimp eggs, then they must be seriously small. Green water or infusoria might work. Green water is really easy. Like I said, just put some nutrient heavy water on the brightest, sunniest window sill you have. It may take a few days to a week, though.

Likewise, with the recipies for insfusoria. There's also a dispute as to whether to start from scratch, from sponge filter squeezings, or to use a starter from an established paramecium or rotifer culture. I failed at starting infusoria, so I'm afraid I can't be of much help.

Another option--vinegar eels are seriously tiny. The blackbandeds went crazy for them. Although, again, I wasn't successful at getting much of a culture going and so can't tell you how to do it.

Hey Bob
Thanks for all the info! Any other fry we have here will eat the decapsulated brine without a problem. Let me be more specific in what I meant in my earlier posts though, so we're both on the same page~

In previous spawnings, I left the fry in with the parents. Shortly after they went free-swimming, all the fry would disappear. I guessed that the parents were eating them. Let's call all those spawnings Batch #1 (or MIA) LOL

In the batch that's growing out now (I think they're about 2 weeks old) I pulled the fry from the parents to see if I could get them raised. That's when I realized how small they really are, and realized that they couldn't get the decapsulated brine shrimp down. I put some mossy driftwood in the tank & kept trying different things (like powdering the flake food or whatever). There's still maybe 50-75 alive from that spawn, which is a drop in the bucket to how many I started with! Lots & lots of dead fry at first. After 2 weeks, the fry are NOW able to eat decapsulated brine. They're still that small! I have convicts that are the same age & are big enough & now eating NLS growth food- they've been off the decap brine for several days. Lets call that Batch #2 or "still kickin' Hee hee!

Batch #3 is the ones in the pictures. That batch is still with the parents, but I'd like to try them on the green water or infusoria or whatever & see if I have better luck & less casualties with it.

I don't know if I was right in thinking that the parents were eating the first batches or not. Maybe there just wasn't enough food that they could eat. I dunno.

DC[/b]

 

[DeeCee]

I may have to see about ordering a starter of vinegar eels, that's a good idea, Bob. I've never used them before, since I only bred discus for so long, and BBS worked great for them at least! I should probably order it today so that I have it here when these guys lose their egg sacks too. While I'm at it, I think I'll order some white worms & other stuff that's easy - might spur some spawns with live food I guess. Errrr maybe not. Lots of fry here & no tank space!
Hmmm maybe I'll have to give Francine a run for the daphnia............... heh heh heh...... :FIREdevil: LOL

Yep, these fry are tiny, that's for sure. I'll try to get a shot of the ones that are 2 weeks old now from the same parents. Like I said, the difference between them & the convicts of the same age is amazing.
I really appreciate all of your help! Thanks a BUNCH!

DC

 

[mscichlid]

Hmmm maybe I'll have to give Francine a run for the daphnia............... heh heh heh...... :FIREdevil: LOL[/b]

Oh Nooooooo! Hey! I'll help you get your paramecium culture going! How's that? Need any bbs? I've got some of that too! Do you have any of that trout chow that Bob Bock brings to the auction sometimes? I'll give you some! Need any tanks or stands? Anything?

 

[DeeCee]

<div class='quotemain'>Hmmm maybe I'll have to give Francine a run for the daphnia............... heh heh heh...... :FIREdevil: LOL[/b]

Oh Nooooooo! Hey! I'll help you get your paramecium culture going! How's that? Need any bbs? I've got some of that too! Do you have any of that trout chow that Bob Bock brings to the auction sometimes? I'll give you some! Need any tanks or stands? Anything?
[/b][/quote]



Nope, just the daphnia, girl.

DC

Oh you crack me up!

 

[mscichlid]

Nope, just the daphnia, girl.

DC

Oh you crack me up![/b]

Not you too! Mild expletive goes here! :wacko:

 

[DeeCee]

Just for comparison, I took a couple shots this morning.

Here's 2 pictures of the cichlasoma Araguaensis - I checked my calendar, and this batch is nearly 3 weeks old:

Oh, and just for comparison purposes - the Araguanensis are in a 20 long, the convicts are in a 40 gal.

And THIS is a picture of the convicts that are 2 days YOUNGER than the ones shown above:

Batch #3 of the Araguanensis are free-swimming this morning, but the tank they're in right now does have more algae along the back & sides so
hopefully they'll be ok until I get my cultures going. We shall see!

DC

 

[DeeCee]

Nope, just the daphnia, girl.

DC

Oh you crack me up![/b]

Not you too! Mild expletive goes here! :wacko:
[/b]

Oh YEAH!

 

[DeeCee]

Special Huge THANK YOU!</span> to Sonny (Bob) again for the <span style="color:#2e8b57">Green Soup.

I really appreciate you bringing that for me! I hope to have my green water tank look like that some day!

Thanks again! :sign0092:

DC

 

[Sonny Disposition]

Sure thing, Donna. It's just from a 5 gallon tank of variatus platys on a window sill.

Did you feed it to your fish yet? How's the daphnia going?

Special Huge THANK YOU!</span> to Sonny (Bob) again for the <span style="color:#2e8b57">Green Soup.

I really appreciate you bringing that for me! I hope to have my green water tank look like that some day!

Thanks again! :sign0092:

DC[/b]

 

[DeeCee]

Hi Bob,

The daphnia is still alive & kicking, hopefully it will stay that way! Never really played with it at all before.

I added the green water from you to a 10 gal with a light on it 24/7. I dropped in some dirty tank water & still need to add a fish -
there's an oddball tetra that I've been eyeballing for that job...... no heater on it, one sponge on. Anything else I need to do with it???