Extending Canister Lines

[Tony]

Right now, I have one of my big display setups in the basement consisting of a 6' long 150 gallon sitting atop a 75 on one of Chris O'Leary's awesome custom metal stands. The 150 is filtered by an AC110 and 2 Rena XP3 canister filters.

I want to swap out the 75 for a 125 and the problem is those two canister filters. I want to move the two canisters out from under the stand to a spot on the floor next to it. I will then build a box that matches the trim in the room to neaten things up a bit.

In order to do this, I'll have to extend one set of lines (so that the tank drains from one end and returns to the other). I'm thinking of running 3/4" pvc lines across the back of the tank and fitting nipples on each end to plug the existing flexible hosing into.

I believe that running the drain lines (from tank into canister) would have less impact on the system's flow than extending the return lines. In this case, gravity would be helping matters and the pipe friction would not matter as much. *BUT* I have heard that you want to restrict flow from the output of a pump and not the input.

What think you, CCA?

 

[dogofwar]

Tony said nipples

 

[Tony]

Tony said nipples

Thanks so much for your help, Matt.

 

[dogofwar]

You're welcome Couldn't help myself!

I wouldn't worry about extending the lines...either with longer lines or by connecting two lines. I'd use hose clamps for piece of mind, though.

Matt

Thanks so much for your help, Matt.

 

[bschuhart]

I would use hose, every bend in PVC piping will slow the flow and those pumps on your canisters are not that powerful. My 150 at work is connected with PVC, but I have a 2400 gallon per hour Iwaki pump on the system. I hooked a flow meter to the final output and it's only 360 gallons per hour. I do have to say it's running through 2 Ocean Clear canisters, chiller, has 2 drains and 2 returns.

 

[Avatar]

Agree...

...PVC sucks, way more work, joints to seal and leak, and not at all conducive to modification/alteration.

Why would one restrict output flow?

 

[STATMATT]

I like PVC b/c it seems cleaner to me. Having a bunch of hoses going every which way makes me feel unorganized. On a previous post you can see my overflow surface skimmer. It is true you don't want to restrict the flow on the incomming line. So one of the ways you can do this is to use a larger diameter pipe. So my suggestion is to use 1.5 inch pipe on the vertical drop and then reduce it down to your nipples just before it goes into your XP3. This way you have all that vertical water pressure of 1.5 inch pipe that even when you reduce the pipes down it still has an adequate amount of pressure to assist the pump in shoving it out the other side. Pumps were made to push, not pull. If you keep that in mind to build a strong push you should have everything working for you.

Also give yourself some slack. Especially in your nipple to pump section. And I recomend using a braided vinyl line for that section to prevent kinks in the hose.

 

[Avatar]

Hoses can be easily mounted/attached - large screw-in hooks work really well into wood, wire/plastic ties also work well. You can see into them which I prefer and they don't require precise right angle fitting/structure. But each to thine own.

 

[Tony]

Update:

Swapped out the 75 below the 150 for a 125 (picture thread coming soon). I moved the canisters out to he side of the stand. The return lines (canister -> tank) are the same length (5') and diameter as the were originally (5/8" ID). For the drain lines (tank -> canister), I got new tubing from Lowes and ran approximiately 11' length each (with a nice slope from the back of the tank around to the side) and upsized the tubing to 3/4" ID.

The canisters have enough *** to push the water up, but there is a definite pressure issue. The canisters are leaking water from the seals - one from the top quick-disconnect seal and the other from the main seal on the canister (between the top motor housing and the body).

Seeing as how these canisters have been set up for a few years now in the same configuration (and never leaked), it's not just a random failure of both seals/gaskeets. It definitely has to do with the new configuraion.

I am considering raising the level of the canisters up about a foot to see if the decreased head makes a difference. But have to wait for the carpet to dry out. Yeah, found the leak on one on Monday night, but didn't notice the other leak until yesterday after work.... after losing about 10 gallons of water onto the carpet. Spent last night running back and forth to the dryer multiple times with 8 fish towels.

So here's my thought on why it's happening - Since the return side has not changed, we can rule that out. I have a feeling that the increased diameter of the drain line is causing too much of a syphon effect and overloading the pressure in the canisters.... to the point that the gaskets cannto handle it. Make sense?

Could raising the canisters up and reducing head make a difference or am I going to have to also scrap the new drain lines or install something to reduce flow in these lines (ball valve, etc)?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Avatar]

Sounds like a job for...

...yo Mama. Or your smart-as-a whip Missus. Hydro-dynamics is not my forte but from I would have thought the syphon-effect pressure would be constant given the same volume of water above the filters and the same resting level for the filters as before. Conceivable that the extra weight/pressure resulting from the extra diameter on the feed lines & extra length and ergo extra water therein is another variable but how much water are we talking about from a 1/8" diameter increase times the length of the hose? Not a lot.

Raising the filters will definitely diminish the feed pressure or you might find relief with the same diameter feed line you were using before. I'd try some Vaseline around the seals before anything else though - it could just be a not so serendipitous expression of Murphy's Law.

Good luck Pilgrim.

 

[STATMATT]

How did you reduced the 3/4 inch ID tube to the 5/8 inch nipple. Around the nipple from the canister is where I think your problem is at. I've got mine from a 1.5 inch siphon reduced down to the 5/8 in nipple So the incomming pressure would be much larger than you are talking about here. Ideally this higher incomming pressure should help the pump push additional water out without the pump having to work so hard. I'd also check your seals. it could be that you knocked a seal off when cleaning or one has broken. Also make sure you use a clamp when attaching the hose to the nipple. if the pipe comes loose it can siphon most of your tank water out. Or put a siphon hole about two inches from the top of the waterline.

 

[Avatar]

Not convinced that a bigger diameter line appreciably increases incoming pressure.

Definitely reduces any flow restriction (negligible?) but where does the extra pressure come from? The weight of the extra water?

Am I missing something? Completely agree about the reduction aspect, just have to assume Tony was/is astute enough to troubleshoot that aspect in advance. D.A., you been drinking again?