Draft Stocking for 55 & 90

[WendyFish]

Recap for those who aren't tired of me yet :wub: ... virtually as soon as we got our tank we had plans to upgrade. That was a lesson in project planning. Now the plans are now very much in the works! The 55 is in house and we will set it up this weekend. We are going to get the 90 done in the next couple of months (aiming to have it cycled and ready for stocking after our vacation in Sept).

Right now we have a 36bow with:
4x yellow lab
1x red zebra
1x c. borleyi
1x electric blue ahli

The basic parameters: We want to sort out the species as best possible. We are not totally opposed to just deciding there's one or more of our current fish that we just can't keep, but we would be happy to keep them too; we have not had any issues with the mix. We have been kinda fascinated by demasoni, so at least the labs are obvious in that regard. We probably want to stick mainly with Mbuna. Activity level / personality is important to us: all else equal, we enjoy more curious and plucky fish that will be very active.

The 90 gallon Mbuna are a little bit of a stab in the dark except for the red zebra colony. I think we want a few groups of fish and from researching I got the sense that the stuff we looked at would do okay together (perhaps on the more aggressive but not ridiculous side temperament wise) and we thought they would make a neat looking tank.

Current thought is:

55 gallon
20 demasoni to start (figuring some attrition to the end state)
Existing 4 yellow labs and maybe a couple more (2?)

90 gallon
Existing c. borleyi (happier in bigger tank)
Existing ahli (get it away from its fellow blue stripey guys, the demasoni)
Get the existing red zebra some friends (4-5 total)
Labidochromis sp. Hongi (4-5)
Pseudotropheus flavus (4-5)
Cynotilapia afra Jalo Reef (4-5)


Questions on it:
- Does this make sense? Problems you can see?
- Thinking we could get 5 to maximize the odds we get a good harem and trade out extra males as needed, does that make sense?
- If I am ordering online, across the places I've looked so far, I noticed that Dave's has F1 red zebras with blue males. We haven't vented him but I think it's likely that our red zebra is a dude. Should I get rid of him so he doesn't interbreed with the others? Or does it matter?
- Are there different fish I should think about in this sort of setup?

As always thanks for your thoughts. I'm a very enthusiastic noob on wheels and vastly appreciate the help. I promise one day to pay it forward!


Wendy :animal0028:

 

[WendyFish]

Oh and one other thing I forgot. I am certainly not set on breeding the fish, but hey life happens. We don't have a big enough house for a fish room unless we decide between having clothes and sleeping in a bed. But I don't like the idea that when life happens, we'd have to always let the fry get killed and eaten. So the mating aspect is a bit important.

 

[fischfan13]

The Yellow Lab/Demasoni tank is a classic Mbuna tank...as a matter of fact I just started another one in the dining room a few weeks ago.
My combo was 6 Labs and 18 Juvenile Dems along with 6 Syno Petricola. The Labs are all adults and have been together for quite a while. The Dems just came from Dave's. I am down to less than 10 Dems. Dems are hit or miss. I have had other colonies that just clicked together. A few years back I had a 55g with Labs, Dems and Cynotilapia Lions Cove that thrived. Personally I believe that Dems do better when overcrowded.

As for your 90g...
I see a problem with the three Mbuna together. Flavus and Cyno's have never worked for me, as the Flavus are the aggressors. Are you looking into getting the Lab Hongi SRT or the Lab sp Hongi? Very few people have the Lab sp Hongi (I have been looking for Wild Caught for quite a while) and most of the linebred SRT's.

 

[WendyFish]

The Yellow Lab/Demasoni tank is a classic Mbuna tank...as a matter of fact I just started another one in the dining room a few weeks ago.
My combo was 6 Labs and 18 Juvenile Dems along with 6 Syno Petricola. The Labs are all adults and have been together for quite a while. The Dems just came from Dave's. I am down to less than 10 Dems. Dems are hit or miss. I have had other colonies that just clicked together. A few years back I had a 55g with Labs, Dems and Cynotilapia Lions Cove that thrived. Personally I believe that Dems do better when overcrowded.

One thing I have wondered is whether there is any less typical tank worth considering with demasoni. Clearly the lab combo is tried and true, and why mess with something that works. I sometimes wonder what's off the beaten path... but for a newbie that's the one you travel first, too!

As for your 90g...
I see a problem with the three Mbuna together. Flavus and Cyno's have never worked for me, as the Flavus are the aggressors. Are you looking into getting the Lab Hongi SRT or the Lab sp Hongi? Very few people have the Lab sp Hongi (I have been looking for Wild Caught for quite a while) and most of the linebred SRT's.

Have seen a couple sites with the sp Hongi apparently available, and the SRT not clear whether avail. Who knows whether that's true till I call or click, I suppose. The SRT clearly look amazing. Is the only issue with these (either kind) the rarity or are there compatibiltiy issues as well?

What would be a better compatible alternative? Would other psuedotropheus be a better fit (acei saulosi polits etc) than the flavus? Would they go with the cyno? Just trying to determine, if there are three that seem troublesome, whether I need to swap out one, or more, and which, to get a good mix.

 

[fischfan13]

The SRT version of the Hongi seems plentiful. I seem to be in the minority when it comes to this version of the Hongi, as I would rather have the Lab sp Hongi which has an orange/yellow dorsal.
If you definitely want to go with Hongi and Jalo Reef and you are looking for a third mbuna I would go with some of these as an option:
Rusties
Labeotropheus
Some Metriaclima (try not to get one that would clash in colors/bars with the Cyno or Lab)
Just looking at Dave's list of Pseudos I came up with these:
Benetos Makonde
Acei "black"
Perspicax
Williamsi
I also looked elsewhere and found these:
Msobo Deep (Great choice)
Polit

 

[Tony]

I have a group of a dozen demasoni, 3 yellow labs and a group of 5 growout Red Cap lethrinops all in the same tank now. Oddly enough, the demasoni beat on each other, but ignore the lethrinops. Just to add variety, have you considered mixing in a group of peacocks or small haps in with the demasoni?

BTW, I have juvie Labeotropheus trewavasae as well as juvie F1 Pseudotropheus sp. Acei - "White tail" (along with a bunch of peacocks and haps). The mbuna are around 1.5" now. If you're interested, shoot me a PM.

 

[WendyFish]

Last time I met many of you, I had 5 cichlids in a 36bow and so I figured I’d provide an update (with pics!) of where we took it from there.

Pretty quickly came to the conclusion there was going to have to be at least one bigger tank. So after moving a 55 back and forth, scheming where it would look the best, we settled it in the living room.

Over the course of the next week, of course, we realized we didn’t want it there at all, so we took it down and moved it back to the dining room. Are you serious?! :wacko:

In the meantime, we had bought the 75 at a good sale (decided the height of the 90 wasn’t going to benefit) and it was waiiiiiting… and waiting, and waiting, as were we… for the background to arrive.

In the meantime we broke up some rocks for scaping. I learned that big wraparound sunglasses can double for safety goggles and that I didn’t like that towel that much anyway.

Two months after the order, the background came, and we installed it last week!

Drying, sure glad I saved those textbooks.

Curing

Tank is scaped and full of water now! (snapped it with the cabinet still open, the filter stuff will be hidden)

Both tanks are running a Rena XP2 and an Eheim G160. New one has Marineland visitherm heaters (other Eheim) both on Jehmco Temp controllers. Both have UV sterilizers which we have found helps the look of our water significantly (not currently running on the cycling tank so we don’t kill new bacteria). We will switch is a seasoned filter from the 55 when the fish get here since it’s running two, but at this rate it might not even matter; Dr Tim’s appears to be working serious miracles for the cycle. We did our first tank the hard way so I haven’t seen that before (impressed!)

Fish come Friday!!!!

Ordered a surplus so we can sort out the gender into breeding groups as they get older (all will arrive 1.5-2in).

We are getting:

10 cynotilapia sp. Hara
7F/1M red zebra (will part out additional male from the 55 so the lab girls can live in peace)
6F/2M (probable) labeotropheus feulleborni

From the existing 55, we will eventually move a male red zebra, a probably-female probably-ahli (going to have to figure this one out at some point), a fantabulous male red fin borleyi, and probably a peacock (I am thinking of a red one to go with the labs and demasoni when we backfill the 55).

One of the big things on my mind is whether to keep the haps. The borleyi in particular, as the current dominant male, is a really gorgeous, badass, 5in growing fish and I’m not ready to part with him yet. But, as big as they get, I’m not ready to commit to getting him a girlfriend either.

Other thoughts… there are a few unconventional things here. Not a lot of allegiance to the real Malawi biotope in the use of wood, and the use of plants. The wood is really for the humans in the room. The looks are nice to change it up a little. It’s nice how you can rescape it easily to change the a little when you need to. With the rock we're using, which doesn't increase on its own probably, we will likely buffer a little more frequently to keep the pH up, though in the 55 we have some wood also and it hasn't dragged down.

And I reeeeeallly love plants, although our plants at this stage are as juvie as our fish will be. Still, even the smaller ones in the 55, our fish really like them (I fail to see how these little yellow labs think that actually hides them, but hey as long as they feel safe) and eventually there might be some water quality benefit (though marginal at our growth level) so I’m all for it.

And the last Wendy idiosyncracy of the new tank. I’m sure someday I will be less attached to my fish and buy, sell, trade all day. But, no matter how garden variety, the red zebra we’ll be splitting from the 55 is the first fish we got, and to me he’s as cichlidy as they come in his full-on hungry/randy/ornery mode, so for now I’m not only keeping him but buying him a harem. Maybe sometime I'll change them out but for now why not keep in the groove.

I think I’m gonna always love my fish too much.


Happy to hear comments, suggestions! Thanks for all the thoughts so far!

 

[Spine]

You did a really nice job on the Tanks. I like that background also,I might have to steal that idea and us it on some of my tanks. Keep up the good work.

 

[Reel Addiction]

Love the back ground Wendy, you guys did a great job. I assume your back from vacation??? If so how was it?

 

[WendyFish]

Love the back ground Wendy, you guys did a great job. I assume your back from vacation??? If so how was it?

Yes, we were in Barcelona and Lisbon and it was fantastic. Anyplace where beer is cheaper than soda is a good place in my book, though. But Lisbon in particular is beautiful, great setting with mountains along the river, sunny and 80 the whole time! Have a cruise coming up in three weeks too -- the background got here from Germany (after about 2 months) literally the last possible day that we were comfortable with if we were going to get fish in the tank for a few weeks of monitoring before the next vacation. So hooray for that! Fish are in there as of Friday, all arrived safely from Dave and are doing very well. Tiny, hyper fishies.

 

[WendyFish]

The main thing so far we have stumbled on that we are changing is the lighting. The 10k/actinic combo isn't really enough to light it to our taste, so we have a high intensity fixture on its way.

 

[ezrk]

We have a giant (really overly powerful) 4 bulb T5HO fixture coming. We don't really plan on using all four but the marginal cost of getting a 4 bulb fixture, as opposed to a 3 bulb fixture, (with three independent power switches so we can have 1, 2, 3 or 4 bulbs on as we want) with a big mix of lights (10k, 6.5k, Gro-Buld and Actinic) will let us experiment with lighting to see what we like, what the fish like and what the plants like.

I feel like it is really hard to tell what you like with lighting and this set-up gives us the opportunity to experiment and see what we works best. It also means we could have non-algae growing bulbs on during the day and then have bulbs that make the fish pretty on when we are home and that sort of thing.