columbian tetra compatibility

[zcfish]

I bought 20 columbian tetras they're only $1 each from petsmart. They're in quarantine. I plan to keep them in my Geophagus/Angelfish/Uaru tank (might add some DISCUS in a few months). Doing a little more research on them it seems they might be fin nippers. Now I have second thoughts since obviously the Angelfish and Geos without long fins will not look too good. Anyone have thought about this?

Also do they stay on the top water column? If they do not I might expand my bloodfin tetra colony since they stay on top all the time. But I like the color and size of the columbian tetra.

 

[JLW]

Columbian Tetras mix really well with discus -- very similar water conditions. I've never had the experience of them being particularly nippy. They seem to be prone to some bacterial infections, but that's about it. Keep them in a big school, and they'll be quite happy.

 

[Avatar]

Same here

Have had them with Biotidomas, Geo altifrons and angels with no issues. Good thing as they do get rather large - may be my favorite tetra.

 

[Beeman]

Great tetras! You will like them. Not top water dwellers, at least in my 90. They actually spend their idle time low to mid level, at rest around driftwood or behind plants. They chase each other, but never bother my angels.

 

[zcfish]

This sounds very encouraging. Going to try them out in my 90g discus tank after quarantine before putting into the big tank. These guys are hard to net.

Anyone kept them in a higher temperature like 84?

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[samsmobb]

I would never put them with discus! Any discus owner would tell you no because they are such aggressive eaters
Main reason why it's not recommended to keep angels with discus..

 

[Avatar]

Then I guess I'm not just "any discus owner"...

...because I own discus and I'm telling you without an reservation to "go for it". Even juvenile discus are plenty tough to hold their own with such for tankmates and the Columbians are too big/fast to be at any risk. Can't say about the temperature - you can look it up and they can probably handle 84° but it might be at the upper limit of optimal. I keep my discus at 80° - with angelfish no less. One big happy family...

 

[JLW]

I agree with Samuel -- not a problem at all. Discus aren't wimps.

 

[samsmobb]

And I can keep discus at 70 degrees and not kill them either but that's not optimal.
Zcfish, go on simply discus.com and ask this question and talk to experienced discus keepers and see whether they'd say they are compatible tank mates.
Obviously they can live in the tank together, but you sacrifice the optimal health of the discus

 

[Avatar]

"Optimal"?

Obviously they can live in the tank together, but you sacrifice the optimal health of the discus

Bull puckey.

Just to be clear, captivity is predicated on sacrificing what is "optimal" for most vertebrates. "Optimal" for discus is living in a wild river. It could very well be that in this case the presence of the tetras will make the discus less insecure, stressed and ultimately subject to ailments. Discus can live absurdly long lives with tetras and any other number of fish as companions, especially when they are captive-bred stock (like mine) that do not require temps above 80° to eat and grow like piglets and that are likely to live longer because of it (cooler temperature = slower metabolism = longer lifespan).

If my discus with tetras at 80° outlive your solitary ones at 88°, am wondering which half of that equation qualifies as "optimal".

 

[Beeman]

I suppose it all comes down to "shucks or git oft the pot"!!! There is so much info out there about how delicate and coddled discus need to be kept. I am weighing in with NO experience with discus, but for me it comes down to the most basic. I say, try it your way, with the fish you like, within reasonably educated research,(and in my preference, staying within a given biotope), and see how it goes. I will ALWAYS say, if you do a 50% water change a week, ain't nothin you can't keep! Don't overstock. But be aware, Angels, once they pair off, can become very territorial!
Personally, I would start a Discus tank without the Angels, and probably without Columbians also. I love both, and maintain both, but with what is out there from MUCH more educated folks, I would opt for soft and gentle tetras, and not much else. Just my humble opinion

 

[Avatar]

Merry merry

I am weighing in with NO experience with discus... but with what is out there from MUCH more educated folks, I would opt for soft and gentle tetras, and not much else. Just my humble opinion

Hear that Joshua? - relatively speaking appears we are hugely "uneducated". No worries, 'twas/'twill be ever thus, but just for the record, "humble" is not a word generally used to qualify or describe opinions based on "NO experience", though a number of others do come to mind...

 

[JLW]

Humble is not a word used to describe me! :-D

Just for the record, if you pick up the latest copy of the Discus Book from Heiko Bleher, he has a biotope done with ... are you ready for this? Nothing but Discus and Colombian Tetras. Of course, Heiko might not know anything about fish or anything ... I mean, geez, not like the guy has ever seen the fish in the wild, or had any experience keeping them. Heck, I doubt he has barely more experience than Samuel and I combined.

I've kept them together. Their water parametres are similar, and they do very, very well together. I have seen people mix relatively slow feeding fish with relatively aggressive feeders and essentially starve the slow guys to death -- I had a client mix Australian Rainbows with Orandas and do exactly that, not terribly long ago (though, that was a bad mix for like 2000 reasons). I see it in saltwater tanks fairly frequently, too.

Discus, however, are not that passive a feeder -- they'll get plenty of food. Okay, they're not going to rush to the top and gobble down flakes like a lot of tetras. But, they're also not going to have the "Gee, did someone put food in my tank?" reaction of some of the more slow, stupid fish out there (cough, cough, orandas). And, it is fairly easy to make sure that all the fish in the tank are eating, and getting plenty, without polluting the water. Unless you're fairly novice, or just "dump some flakes on the top," you can make sure the fish are all fed with a minimal amount of effort.

Ultimately, it comes down to two schools of thought on Discus. A lot of people have this idea that they should ONLY ever be kept in species tanks, or perhaps with a handful of very, very passive fishes: certain plecos, maybe a pair of Apistos, Cory cats, stuff like that. Others recognise that they are /cichlids,/ that they do quite well in a mixed tank (within certain reasonable restrictions), and are not complete wimps -- they'll fend for themselves. Generally, I find that tank mates for discus are more often ruled out because they can't handle being with the discus, not because discus can't handle being with them.

 

[zcfish]

Thanks everyone. I have never kept discus and my first ones are still in dealer's tank. They'll get delivered on Jan 9. They're wild uatuma royal blues and tefe greens. I have found that discus keepers are quite different from other cichlid keepers. They like to stick to very strict regimes. BF then 50% water changes everyday (aged water no less). Are discus so hard to keep? I guess I will find out.

The columbians are doing great. They're indeed very active. After so many encouraging comments I am tempted to buy more while the sale is still on.

 

[JLW]

I would encourage you to get more of them, if the tank can handle it. They're a shoaling fish that can be a little rambunctious with each other. In a big shoal, they don't bother anyone and are peaceful. With just a few, they can be nippy. I think you said you had 20 or so, which is definitely not a small group.

 

[neut]

The discus world is rife with debates and contradictory advice, just the way it is. So, what one discus keeper believes is different from another and what works for some people doesn't work for everyone.

So, what I know is what worked for me and based on my (past) experience with discus (several years worth) I'd agree with those saying they're more robust than some people think-- but, with the understanding that this is when they are healthy and happy and of good genetic stock... And there's the rub, you have to get good quality fish, not just color but health-wise.

The other half of the problem with some people is they keep and feed them quite unnaturally (I'd like to say stupidly, but that's a personal opinion and I'm trying to be objective here) and then wonder why they have to do constant water changes and constantly medicate them to keep them well.

One of my SA tanks with discus included pink tailed chalceus (large, active characin) up to about 6 inches, some very large angels, and a 6" arowana, and the bosses of the tank were a big pigeon blood discus and a gold pearlscale angel of about 7" diameter (I never see them like that these days) who ruled the tank but were perfectly peaceful with each other.

 

[JLW]

Very well said, Neut.

 

[zcfish]

Neut - very helpful thoughts. My Discus came 3 days ago and they're quit robust. Very aggressive eaters like angels. They're also a lot bigger than the angels.

A few of the columbian tetras MIGHT have ick. Just a few shiny white spots on them (2 - 5) and it has been like there for the 2 weeks they're in quarantine. I have been observing since I got them. Don't ick progress pretty fast and all fish will get them? I started treatment with higher water temp and Quick Cure. Otherwise they're varocious eaters and settled in nicely.

 

[neut]

Congrats. Hope the discus do well for you and hopefully, the tetras come through ok. Was looking this thread over again and just wondering if in your post above BF means beef heart?

Arguing over beef heart has been going on for years in the discus world and I'm not here to be argumentative or to prove beef heart is wrong, per se, but it is certainly not the only effective way to approach discus keeping and not the way I would (or did) keep them. So, here's just a few thoughts...

First and maybe foremost, it is not a required food for discus. A debate over whether it is a good or bad food for them can go on all day long, but you can be successful without it. I know this as a fact, since I have never fed beef heart to any fish, including my discus, which I kept successfully for several years and which grew as big and fast as anyone else's AND I didn't have to medicate my discus or perform the daily large water changes some people believe are a requirement.

Second, discus protein requirements are sometimes exaggerated. The argument sometimes goes that they've been found to have important protein processing enzymes-- true-- but this doesn't mean you can't overdo protein in their diet or should feed them the very high protein diets some people believe they need. Any fish has an optimal range of protein intake. Exceed that and it does not help their growth. More is not always better, as demonstrated in the discus study below. Link

Growth rate increased significantly with protein level up to 500 g kg–1 diet and then decreased.

And guess what is produced by excess dietary protein? Excess waste and ammonia production, which means added water changes.

Also, discus in the wild eat (a lot) more plant material than many people realize: discus natural history

This species feeds predominantly on algal periphyton, fine organic detritus, plant matter, and small aquatic invertebrates.

(periphyton = the matrix of algae and heterotrophic microbes attached to submerged substrate in many aquatic habitats)

So, I didn't feed beef heart, didn't do daily water changes, didn't need the regular deworming and medication regime some find necessary or recommend, did keep them with plants and substrate and did (usually) keep them with other tankmates-- and I did very well with them, including very good health. Only discus I ever had problems with were a couple of already emaciated and sick ones that I tried to rescue years ago that died soon after I got them.

Forgive the long winded post, but discus are still among my favorite fish... and again, to each their own, so my intention here is not as much to prove another approach to discus keeping wrong as to say the strict regime (often including beef heart, bare tank, and daily water changes) some feel so strongly about is certainly not the only approach that works.

 

[zcfish]

Neut - your comments are very useful. I give it a quick once over but will need time to study it in detail.

I was kind of surprise when first reading about the keeping discus from various internet resources. It seems feeding them a lot of beef heart and protein is the norm. I assume they must have short digestive tracts therefore need a lot of food in take. While from your article it seems they have a very long tract like those of the tropheus of Lake Tanganyika. In keeping Tropheus excessive feeding is a big no-no.

I am feeding them flakes 2 times a day and bloodworms at night. Will experiment a little once they're out of quarantine and settled in. I feel that at this time it's best to feed them food they can easily digest so they don't get sick.