Cloudy water

[hotwingz]

Ok so i have a 55 with 11 sa. I cant seem to keep the water from clouding up. I dont over feed them and i have a penguin 750 filter. I do have three large pieces of driftwood. But they have been in there for about 3 months now. Ive done water and carbon changes frequently. But nothing seems to keep my water clean. Is it possible the driftwood is still releasing tannins???

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[UNCLERUCKUS]

I DONT THINK THE DRIFTWOOD WOULD CLOUD YOUR WATER. TANNINS WILL GIVE IT A BROWNISH TINT. WHAT TYPE OF FISH IS IN THE 55? HAVE YOU CHANGED THE FILTER CARTRIDGES, AND THE FILTER ITSELF? HOW OFTEN ARE YOUR WATER CHANGES AND HOW MUCH WATER DO YOU CHANGE? ALL THESE PLAY A PART.

 

[Andrewtfw]

The cause is likely to be either a bacterial bloom or a filamentous algae bloom. Testing the water should rule out one.

 

[jonclark96]

+1 on DQ's questions. In addition, how long has the tank been up and running?

 

[hotwingz]

To be honest i dont know all the names and technical for each of the fish. But i have a bubble bee, 2jewels, ruby peacock, convict, orange lab?, and a couple other ones that seem to be a mix maybe. But i do a water change once every 10 days or so. I dont get to it as much as id like cause i work too much! As for the filter it holds four cartradges and i change two at a time and did so just last week. And my water changes are around 12-13 gallons

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[hotwingz]

I also recently put a large amonia pouch and a small sponge filter in the filter itself hoping they would help but idk if they are.

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[hotwingz]

Oh sorry ah the tank been up since late septemeber.

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[jonclark96]

Sounds like you have a mix of african rift lake cichlids (bumblebee, peacock, lab), west African cichlids (jewel) and central american cichlids (convict). Things may be working out for now, but each of these have different water parameters and long terms might not work out peacefully. Take some time to research each of the fish to get a better idea of what each type needs to thrive.

As for the cloudy water, I would up your water changes and think about getting another filter for the tank. For comparison, on my 55 I currently run 3 filters (AC110, AC70, and an ehiem 2215 canister). Each filter is "rated" for more than a 55 gallon tank, but in combination offers enough water movement and filter media capacity to keep water parameters in check and reduce the amount of cleaning of mechanical filtration to a reasonable level. I also do weekly 50% to 75% water changes.

 

[Avatar]

Kick the habit

I think you mean a 350. Define cloudy as in what color if any. Brown or tea colored points to tannins and yes it can take many months or even years to leech them out depending on species of wood. White is generally indicative of bacteria, don't have any experience with algae blooms that are other than green.

Myself I'd stop changing cartridges for openers. Every time you replace them you throw out all the bacterial colonies that live in and on the media, which means you're trashing a big percentage of your tanks capacity for biological filtration. Those bacteria are way more valuable than the measly amount of charcoal or whatever that is inside the cartridges. Maintaining a sponge pre-filter should help but it may take a bit to get it colonized to the extent that it makes a difference.

I used the same Emperor 400 cartridges (same set-up as a Penguin 350) for years even after the foam fell off at which time I cut pieces of better foam and attached them to the old plastic frames. Just rinse them periodically in a bucket of old tank water until they come "clean" so to speak and put them back in. Really. Much more valuable that way.

Could also be that some of what you're seeing is the dust off the carbon in the new pads. Be worth rinsing them outside the tank if you're not already doing so.

IMO disposable cartridges are a fool's game (unless you're the manufacturer/vendor), a waste of money and just landfill waiting to happen. It's just a corporate way of maintaining cash flow - sort of like a pusher and a junkie. Also one of the first things I noticed three years ago upon re-entering the hobby was that these types of filters have come to dominate LFS sales for the same reason. Once you buy one, they've got you. Not saying the filter is no good mind you, just that you needn't replace the cartridges and you (financially) and your fish (water quality) would be better off if you did not.

 

[hotwingz]

Ya jon i was wishing i had done more research before! I bought them all, i knew enough about the cichlid species to know i wanted them but didnt realize how much different they were!! But ya as for now they all seem to enjoy each others company and non of them bother each other. I really dont even have any nipped fins. But ya i know im going to have to learn a few more things! Thats why i joined this forum everyones real nice and informative!

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[hotwingz]

Avatar you sure about not ever changing filters. Because everyone ive talked to plus my expirience (which is pretty good outside cichlids) is that changing the filter media but not all at once to keep bacteria, and not any sooner then three weeks apart has kept my water cleaner then not changing filters. But i rarely do still maybe but once every three months. And i do need atleast one more filter on my tank!

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[Avatar]

Microbes are our friends

Avatar you sure about not ever changing filters. Because everyone ive talked to plus my expirience (which is pretty good outside cichlids) is that changing the filter media but not all at once to keep bacteria, and not any sooner then three weeks apart has kept my water cleaner then not changing filters. But i rarely do still maybe but once every three months. And i do need atleast one more filter on my tank!

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Read it again. Not changing the filters does not mean not cleaning them. The "filters", in this case media, don't carry the load so to speak for breaking down ammonia (fish waste) in the tank - the bacteria do. Media does not come with bacteria, they have to colonize the media which takes time, hence the allegiance that keepers have to established sponge filters. Whatever minimal absorption that the pitiful smattering of charcoal within the cartridges performs is quickly exhausted, however they do continue act as bio-media because, that's right, their porous surfaces also get populated by bacteria.

Do as you please - I've got 30 tanks that are crystal clear, haven't treated for any maladies in over a year and I only volunteered the info because you started this thread by saying you have cloudy water. If I leave a tank alone for a month. which I often do, and then do a 50% water change and stir everything up so that the water is basically brown, an hour after I restore the filtration it'll be clear as glass. All I'm suggesting is that if you want the cloudiness gone then stop fixing what isn't broke and allow yourself the benefit that only established biological media can provide.

Think about it. By far the most commonly used filter among serious keepers/breeders is a simple piece of sponge that uses passive uplift caused by air bubbles to draw water through the medium. That's it. No massive flow rate, no fancy bio-wheels, no special filter media - just a mere piece of sponge. And no one ever changes them or throws them out until they disintegrate. All we ever do is squeeze them "clean" in tank water and put them back in service. You can do the same with your filter pads - just swish them around in some tank water to get out the organic particles and put them back in.

I had two Emperor 400s that are essentially the same as your Penguin 350. Bought them used and they came with a whole shopping bag full of new replacement cartridges. When I sold them over a year later because they make too much noise for my tastes, I still had the whole bag of cartridges because I was just using the frames with some foam I cut that was thicker and less prone to dissolve that the type Marineland uses in theirs. I didn't do hat because I'm miserly, but because established ones work better than new ones.

Like I said, suit yourself, but you asked. And by the way, you might take a gander at your filter while it's running to make sure that the water is flowing through the pads rather than past or above them. And give that pre-filter a chance - the right piece of foam can host a veritable multitude of beneficial bacteria. It will also allow you to go much longer between servicing the filter pads as it will trap much/most of the organic material while boosting your biological filtration.

 

[hotwingz]

Ok ya great! Like you said i asked. And i got a lot of useful information. I knew that bio filtration was better but i was also told changing filters was good. Thats only why i counter asked. I wasnt trying to say you were wrong, so thank you all for the welth of shared knowledge im guna try your suggestions and ill let you know how it went! Thanks.

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[neut]

Pretty much agree with what Avatar's advice. I wouldn't exactly say that replacing cartridges is wrong, a lot of people are perfectly happy with that approach. But ime the next step in the learning curve is to use filter media permanently and rinse it out periodically rather than replacing it, (an exception would be carbon, if you're relying on it for chemical filtration, but even carbon becomes a bio-media after a while since your beneficial bacteria basically colonizes any surface area in your filter).

If you think of your power filter as essentially a media chamber with a pump to push water through it, the pre-made cartridges are kind of a waste of your true media capacity. Since filter capacity is basically a function x volume of water flow through x volume of media and not just water flow, imo you'd ideally want to fully use your media space instead of simply having a couple of wimpy cartridges. Here's an example:

Essentially I've more or less tripled my media capacity here compared to using a cartridge in the same space. Instead of cartridges you can use filter pad, poly filter floss, ceramic bio media, bulk, loose media in a mesh bag (like carbon, Seachem Purigen, etc.) or other options or combinations. If you notice I keep the original media frames in place simply to keep the poly material out of the bio wheels. You can keep using carbon in them or other loose media or cut filter pad or sponge strips to put in them. For filter maintenance I just alternately rinse out the media from one side or the other in a bucket with tank water as needed (not tap water, the chlorine kills your beneficial bacteria). The advantage over buying cartridges is it saves money, saves regularly throwing out half your beneficial bacteria colony, gives you more media options, and uses more of your filter's true media capacity.

I wouldn't guarantee this alone will solve your water clarity problem or that you may not need more filtration or larger water changes, since all of that varies with each setup, but you will definitely save $ and get more out of your filter ime.

 

[mchambers]

I endorse Sam's advice, and I'd not use any ammonia pouches. I worry that you'll starve your good bacteria, which you need to convert ammonia to nitrites and nitrites to nitrates.

 

[Andrewtfw]

How long have the fish been in this tank? It sounds like you may have a bacterial bloom, though as Sam pointed out, it would be helpful to know the color and the circumstances that led up to the cloudy water. If it is a filamentous algae bloom, the water tends to go from clear to milky white and then quickly to green. Bacteria blooms will become increasingly white and will eventually clear on their own. As I said before, a test kit can help determine the type of bloom you are experiencing.
Regardless, stop tampering with the filter media and allow time for bacteria to colonize the surface area of the filter pads and media.

 

[dogofwar]

First thing I'd do is more water changes: do a 50% one tonight. Another 50% one in a couple of days. And a 50% one each week thereafter. Cloudy water will most likely be solved.

Matt

 

[creepyoldguy]

Sounds like you lack bio media or at least bio media that had been established w bacteria . Us it a white-ish cloudy.

 

[Hawkman2000]

I agree with all the other input here. I run a Penguin 350 and stopped using the rite size cartriges awhile ago. I filled the grey media cartriges with seachem matrix, wrapped coralife 100micron filterpad on the in-flow side of it, and put 3/4 inch foam infront of that. Foam (never rinse), filter pad (I blast the it off once a week with water changes), and the matrix in media cartriges (never rinse) and my cycle is fantastic and my water is crystal clear.

I would also say that ur tank might be a bit overstocked.

I would also recomend dossing with either seachem matrix or tetra easy balance after water changes

 

[hotwingz]

Great ill try getting some more sponges tomorrow after work and slowly replace the cartridges, thanks! But this is my tank...
Not sure i did that right, and its not a great picture ha its hard to get a good pic on something that big on my phone!
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