Can I mix these?

[olzkool]

I am starting a new breeding project. I got 4 more tanks set up and was getting ready to start breeding some different mbuna. Some species that aren't found alot in the hobby, something different from the same old stuff. I had it all planned out. Species lists, which are going in which tank together so I didn't have any mix breeding, etc. Then Aquamania happened. I noticed there were hardly any mbuna there. The tables, and the buyers, were loaded up on haps and peacocks. I do not have any experience with breeding peacocks and haps. I have an all male show tank, and a species specific tank of Placidochromis, but that's about the extent of it. I was hoping some of the experienced breeders here could steer me in the right direction. I have my mbuna breeders set up already and I am now starting on my hap / peacock breeding tanks (40 longs) which were initially intended for mbuna. I would like to put groups (1:4) of Tangerine tigers (Protomelas taeniolatus Likoma Island) and Albino S. Fryeri in one tank and groups of Ndewe(Protomelas taeniolatus) and Ngara Flametails in the other. Is this possible to do without interbreeding? I do not want hybrids which is why I tried to pick species that do not resemble each other. I also already have some males of the species listed as well as a female albino S.Fryeri.
I know the tanks are kinda small but ill be starting with young, smaller adults and have the ability to move to 55s or 75s when it becomes necessary. I just would rather not do it at the moment because I would have to move a lot of fish around. Any advice from guys/gals in the know would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Chris

 

[Malawimania]

You should be fine with the aulonocara stuartgranti ngara and protomelas taeniolatus ndiwe in a tank together, however if you want to be sure a species only tank is the way to go. I would watch their behavior together, if you notice the males courting females from another sub group scratch the idea. A good experiment could be to perform a water change and keep a close eye on the fish afterward. Most of my haps, peacocks, and mbuna breed right after water changes.

Protomelas taeniolatus Likoma and the Albino S. Fryeri I wouldn't mix. Both are haps and the chance of the two cross breeding is pretty good. Once the most dominate male establishes he could be after all the girls.

Also, breeding two larger species of fish in a smaller tank can be tough. The most dominant male can be pretty terrorizing to anything in the tank. The lesser assertive male of the two groups may never breed due to the dom male.

 

[olzkool]

Thanks for thd advice. It doesnt sound encouraging for the fryeri. Maybe I should just scrap the idea and do 2 species only. After last week I didn't want to have to set up anymore tanks right now. By the way thanks for the Williamsi north group. The little guys are in a 75 with some chewere and are loving life right now

 

[Malawimania]

Happy to hear the williamsi are doing well. I was feeding them a mixture of Ken's tropical green granual and NLS pellet. They grow fast eating the tropical green it's a great food for mbuna.

 

[Finnegan@Large]

Ill chip in that I've experienced S. Fryeri breeding hi-jinx in the past, on two occasions with the same male in a 90g Malawi community tank. He spawned with Aulonocara and Copadichromis, and was relentless in his suppression of males of other species.

 

[olzkool]

Then I guess I'm definitely shelving that idea. I thought since they were albino they would keep to their own and I would definitely be able to tell if they were hybrid fry. I do t want want to get all excited to have a female holding only for her to spit out some little white babies. Guess I should have kept that other 75 lol

 

[Tony]

40 breeder will not work for one group of adult Protomelas, let alone them and something else. 40 breeder is tight for even Jacobfreibergi peacocks in my experience. It is simply not enough space for territory requirements and swimming.

2 groups of any peacock/hap = 55 or 75. You need 4 feet of tank space.

Not trying to be a bummer, just recalling my experiences breeding Malawi fish (including 7 different Protomelas).

 

[verbal]

Then I guess I'm definitely shelving that idea. I thought since they were albino they would keep to their own and I would definitely be able to tell if they were hybrid fry. I do t want want to get all excited to have a female holding only for her to spit out some little white babies. Guess I should have kept that other 75 lol

It would be worse, with a non-albino mother, they would be normal colored.

 

[olzkool]

Tony it's a 40 long so it is a 4' tank. It's the same as my 55's just 4" shorter top to bottom. Still you might be right. Still may be too small. It would only be temp. though. Obviously I'm not keeping a group of 6" fish in there. They would be moved as they got larger.
Looks like 1 species in each now. That kinda sucks

 

[olzkool]

Just one last thought before I give up on this...what if I switched some of my tanks around and had one hap and one mbuna group in each 40 and a 75? Would the mbuna just terrorize them to death, or to the point of not breeding?

 

[Tony]

Just one last thought before I give up on this...what if I switched some of my tanks around and had one hap and one mbuna group in each 40 and a 75? Would the mbuna just terrorize them to death, or to the point of not breeding?

4' tank - gotcha!

Mixing a mbuna breeding group with haps - I've had luck doing that. Just need to match them up, aggression-wise and provide suitable separated territories for the males. I've had good luck with large plants or vertical rocks in the center of the tank as a sight break. Not the most visually appealing decor, but it works sometimes.

 

[Localzoo]

Maybe a large rock as sight break or vertical slates like Tony said but do it so it looks natural.


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[olzkool]

Thanks. Glad to hear it actually may work. I had someone else say it may work so I figured I would ask to see of anyone has tried it. Maybe that's the route I will go. Worse case I separate them if if doesn't. Anyone else have experience with this?

 

[verbal]

Which mbuna? I would be most likely to try the fyeri with mbuna.

 

[olzkool]

A ton of options there but i would hate to move already established groups. What would make the most sense for me would be to break up my newest 75 since the fish in there haven't really laid claim to any space yet. I have albino Socofoli, chewere, and Williamsi in there. They are all relatively young groups. The Williamsi are just babies. I could leave them in there since they get kinda big and put in the fryeri with them. Then maybe I could put the chewere in one tank with a protomelas group, and the Socofoli in another with the protomelas and just skip the Flametails for now. Even though the Socofoli are kinda known for going crazy, mine are pretty laid back. I guess it's worth a try. Worse case nobody breeds and I learn a lesson in hap breeding. If anyone is reading this and thinks this is just crazy talk feel free to let me know. I won't mind. I just want to breed a few haps and make the most out of my limited tank space without getting rid of any of the existing mbuna groups I have.

 

[verbal]

Honestly the chewere would be my last choice to combine with haps. IIRC they are small but pretty aggressive. Protomelas are a the opposite, a hap that is big but not terribly aggressive.

From the fish you list the most likely combo to work would be socofoli and fyeri. From what I have heard williamsi tend to keep their aggression to themselves, so they could probably work with the fryeri.