40+ Africans too many for 75g?

[mfield4]

Not sure exactly how many I have but there are at lease 40 in my 75g tank. Is this too many? I don't see any bad signs yet but there could soon right?

I have a Fluval 403, Eheim 2217, and going to add my fluval 405 once a new part comes in. Is this enough filtration?

The only real concern I have right now is that it doesn't seem like all of the fish are getting food. I feed kensfish spiriluna flake w/ garlic and paprika 2x a day but I feed A LOT and it is gone in less than 15 seconds.

Please advise.

 

[verbal]

It depends on the size and the groups if you have too many fish. If you have 3 groups of 10+ fish, you could be set for a long time(maybe occasional removing surplus males). However if you have 8 groups of 5 fish, it is pretty likely there will be issues of some type(terrors or some fish not aggressive enough).

While for a lot of tanks your filtration would be overkill, I think it is about right for a highly stocked mbuna tank.

 

[Buckcich]

How long does the tank been set-up?
Do you have 15/20 adults and a bunch of fry/juvies offspring? or all adults?
How many species?
Post what you have and we sure can help you.

PS: It's impossible to over-filtrate. You are fine, for that bioload.

 

[Tony]

Yeah, all depends on what type of African and how they're broken into groups.

All or mostly hap/peacock males - too many.

Groups of mbuna - probably fine.

 

[mfield4]

I will have to get a list put together. I cannot possibly begin to tell you how many and what kind I have!

I am a huge advocate of over filtration and in no way was I worried about that. I was worried that I didn't have sufficient filtration.

Anyway I will get a stock list when I get home. No juvies, some adults and most sub-adults still not at full size.

The tank has been set up for about a year but has gone through tank transfers 3 times now (30L to 75 to 92g corner back to 75)

 

[mfield4]

Here is the stock list:

7 S. petricola (unsexed)
2 P. nyererei (1m:1f)
8 P. acei (full size but unsexed)
1 bumblebee
2 maingano (2m)
1 OB Peacock (m)
1 Strawberry peacock (m)
5 yellow lab (1m:4f)
1 chewere (m)
5 blue regal peacock (1m:4f)
3 ruby red peacock(2m:1f)
2 ngara flameback (unsexed)
1 C. afra jalo reef (m)
1 L. hongi (m)
1 borelyi (m)
2 jewel s (1m:1f)
4 tiger barbs (broke down my planted tank and sold the fish but nobody wanted them)

That is 47 fish ROUGHLY

 

[fischfan13]

Here is the stock list:

7 S. petricola (unsexed)
2 P. nyererei (1m:1f)
8 P. acei (full size but unsexed)
1 bumblebee
2 maingano (2m)
1 OB Peacock (m)
1 Strawberry peacock (m)
5 yellow lab (1m:4f)
1 chewere (m)
5 blue regal peacock (1m:4f)
3 ruby red peacock(2m:1f)
2 ngara flameback (unsexed)
1 C. afra jalo reef (m)
1 L. hongi (m)
1 borelyi (m)
2 jewel s (1m:1f)
4 tiger barbs (broke down my planted tank and sold the fish but nobody wanted them)

That is 47 fish ROUGHLY

YIKES.
A lot of crossbreeding waiting to happen there.
Keep Peacocks with their own kind unless they are all males.
That Labidochromis hongi male could end up crossing with a Yellow Lab female.
You have the potential of a lot of trouble in that tank.

 

[mfield4]

I know :blush: I want to only have male peacocks but my ngara's have not shown ANY color and I cannot tell them apart from the other female peacocks in the tank.

I guess when I end up moving (closing just got pushed back another 2 weeks, **** short sales! :angry3 I will just remove all the female peacocks?

The hongi is not going to mate with anyone, he gets bullied by the afra pretty badly so he will go as well...

If I remove the above mentioned that will bring my count down under 40. I just wish everyone would show their colors like I have seen in other tanks..

 

[verbal]

I would shoot to cut the list down to roughly 25.

I would keep:
7 S. petricola (unsexed)
2 P. nyererei (1m:1f)
5 yellow lab (1m:4f)
1 borelyi (m)
5 male peacocks

The definitely out list would be:
bumblebee
hongi
jewels
female peacocks(unless you narrow to one species)

Here is the stock list:

7 S. petricola (unsexed)
2 P. nyererei (1m:1f)
8 P. acei (full size but unsexed)
1 bumblebee
2 maingano (2m)
1 OB Peacock (m)
1 Strawberry peacock (m)
5 yellow lab (1m:4f)
1 chewere (m)
5 blue regal peacock (1m:4f)
3 ruby red peacock(2m:1f)
2 ngara flameback (unsexed)
1 C. afra jalo reef (m)
1 L. hongi (m)
1 borelyi (m)
2 jewel s (1m:1f)
4 tiger barbs (broke down my planted tank and sold the fish but nobody wanted them)

That is 47 fish ROUGHLY

 

[Buckcich]

I would shoot to cut the list down to roughly 25.

I would keep:
7 S. petricola (unsexed)
2 P. nyererei (1m:1f)
5 yellow lab (1m:4f)
1 borelyi (m)
5 male peacocks

The definitely out list would be:
bumblebee
hongi
jewels
female peacocks(unless you narrow to one species)

+1

 

[YSS]

Another problem is when you lose power. If you are overstocked, you don't have much time before your fish are going to start suffering...

 

[dogofwar]

I'm really looking forward to Tony's presentation at the Nov meeting. I think that folks will be a lot less likely to end up with tanks like this after it!

I always cringe when I see a bunch of female peacocks mixed together...unless they're really distinctive, then it becomes really hard to tell them apart. And one kind of peacock (among others) will spawn together. All of this doesn't matter if you just want a pretty tank but it does if you ever take fry from it...

Matt

 

[Buckcich]

Major cringe factor!!

 

[neut]

I've had that many in a 75 before, haps and peacocks, and a fancy pleco or two, no mbuna. At some junctures there were also a few frontosa (3-5 inches). No problems at all, good growth, good spawning. So it is possible to do. Not 40 adults though, some were juvies. Kept a close eye on spawning and offspring and in my particular case I wasn't getting cross breeding, but the spawners at the time were a peacock species (particular one varied, but only one peacock species at a time), Z rocks lithobates, and Taiwan reef fish. All different looking fish.

As far as crossbreeding, always a possibility with Malawis, but it was also interesting to see a decided preference to mate with their own species in that setup. I wouldn't mix breeding peacocks, though. Females tricky to distinguish in many cases and the tendency is for whichever is the dominant male to breed with all of them. (And let me state for the record I've raised thousands of fry and I'm fussy about maintaining the quality and purity of a species.)

As far as fish health, it all depends on how well your system and maintenance routine preserves water quality, plus what and how you feed. Power outages are potentially an issue (we do get them here frequently) and depends how you're set up to deal with them.

Is it what you'd recommend? Not really, and not everyone could pull it off. But that doesn't mean it can't be done. It is definitely possible to do successfully.

All of that said, that was something I did some years ago and only that tank, even then. But these days I really prefer the aesthetics of an uncrowded tank.

 

[dogofwar]

For a display Malawi tank, especially with mbuna, I love the look of 2-3 large groups of 10-15 fish in a 75. Or more in a bigger tank. Crowding actually reduces aggression.

Just filter a lot and do water changes. As for power outages, get a Hurricane 5 back-up air pump. Battery kicks in when the power goes off (and it can run a dozen or so air outlets...enough to run the heck out of a couple of big sponges and boxes)...and also runs on D batteries.

My issue comes with mixing a little of this and a little of that. Doesn't particularly look nice and doesn't make for a breeding set-up in which you can be confident in what you're producing...

Matt

 

[mfield4]

all very good points that have given me much to think about. I was doing a lot of browsing on tank setups and stocking and I have come to the determination that I need a change.

I love the colors that the lake victorian cichlids show, and am considering starting over with a tank comprised soley of victs. I took a look at the "cookie cutters" on cichlid-forum and love a few of the fish there. I especially like the coloration of many of the females. I would love to have 4-5 trios of different species from this lake, still keeping an overstocked tank to minimize agression. Is this smart with victs?

In order to do this, though, I would want to find a good home for ALL my current stock. Would anyone be interested?

This whole new idea for me also would help in that I am moving on Sunday and have to keep my tank with the next tenants for an unspecified amount of time until construction is fnished on my home. I do not like the idea of complete newbs taking care of 47 fish, and if I start over I can take my time on selecting stock and introduce the fish slowly, one or two trios at a time.

So if anyone is interested please let me know, and any suggestions regarding an all victorian setup in a 75 g would be much appreciated.

 

[verbal]

With Victorian cichlids you have to be very careful with your choices, because they are closely related. I would probably go with 2 groups that are not aggressive and very different in appearance.

It seems like the Haplochromis "Thick Skin" sp. 44 is a poor candidate for community tanks. Also the Ruby Greens may be dominated too much by most other cichlids. With 2 species I would probably start with 8 to 10 young fish rather than 6.

You could probably throw-in a peaceful malawi cichlid(yellow lab, small peacock or rusties), if you wanted more than a couple species.

 

[mfield4]

Ah I really liked the sp. 44 and have a friend with about 20 fry already. Oh well. I want to NOT end up like I did with my current stock so no sp. 44 for me

Would 3 groups be pushing it? Possibly 3 groups of 6 and some petricola?

You could probably throw-in a peaceful malawi cichlid(yellow lab, small peacock or rusties), if you wanted more than a couple species.

I'm thinking that I would not want the rusties, and the only peacock I would want is my Ruby red sub-adult. But I have heard they can get pretty aggressive? Yellow labs are getting boring to me, so we will stray away from that.

Before any of this can happen though I need to find a home for the current stock. any takers? May be time to put up a FS ad ;-)

 

[Tony]

During a somewhat impaired conversation with Greg Steeves at the ACA, he said that you could mix two very different Vic haps in a tank. Something like a Ruby Green and a predatory torpedo-shaped guy. You could catch some very cool behavior, plus the tank would never be overrun with fry.

I guess I'm more of a Malawi guy. More variety, less chances of crossbreeding and generally less aggressive (so you'll have more colored up fish).

Like the other guys said, if you stick with your current inhabitants, either pick an all-male setup of swap to groups that are compatible and won't interbreed.

 

[mfield4]

So popular advice is that I can ONLY have 2 groups of vics in the same tank then, and ONLY if they are very different?

That doesn't give quite as colorful tank as I would have hoped.

Why then do the cookie cutter options have 3 or 4 trios listed as an all victorian setup?